Archers thread #148: Unseasonably, it's panto time in Ambridge. He's behind you, Pat! BANG. Discuss the Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think George Grundy isn't a psychopath, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Will Rob return, or are they playing with us? Will Pat run amok with her shotgun and wipe out half the village? (We can but hope ...) Will Oliver come to his senses and turf the Grundy clan out of Grange Farm? So many questions, so much time.

Over to you!

so Johnny is Pat & Tony's grandson? (i stopped listening for a long while, took it up again, stopped for a while and am recently returned)

also: did anyone else think that George's dressing down was fab?

I think George is heading for an incel storyline.

Yes. Not known about. Son of eldest son John who died in the tractor accident.
Discovered when he was ~16 just in time for him to love farming, come to live with Pat & Tony and do an apprenticeship.

Since we really need next generations, it seems a shame that Johnny is a silent. And a shame that he doesn't seem to have a stake in the "family" business.

Finally Natasha articulated not wanting to lose free childcare.

With George - loved how the "birds" comment was immediately slapped down. I'm wondering if Hannah is going to walk off the job at some point? Leaving a showdown with Martyn and Neil about staff?

Johnny wasn't affected as a child by his Dad dying young though, because he never knew him, and had/has a good stepdad father figure in Leeds - can't recall his name but he's featured before and is a good sort.

Brilliant summaries and good to be reminded.

I hadn’t realised that Clive was their BROTHER, for some reason I thought he was an uncle. So why oh why isn’t Susan more worried/alert about George’s little Scrote tendencies. She must have grown up with one very similar?

loved Hannah giving it to George straight. I can’t be the only one who’s had a brand new untried staff member turn up and be utterly perplexed that they have to pitch in on the sweeping/post/washing up rather than running the place or doing “strategy”. 😂

I love the fact that there’s finally a point to Hannah - fantastic hearing her put George firmly in his place, telling him like it is (and without needing to step out of character to do so). Genius of Neil to have engineered this (and I’m almost sure he will have done so). Also having Johnny waiting in the wings (quite literally it would seem at the moment) adds a definite frisson to Tom throwing his toys out of the pram after blotting his copybook yet again. He has felt for a long time (well back in the day when he used to actually be in the scripts) like the true heir to Bridge Farm.

Lots of them. As far as I know, Ivy and Bert were law-abiding, decent citizens, just on a very low income - not that surprising given the size of their family. Their house, which is where Tracy and family live now, with her dad Bert, must have been full to bursting when the children were growing up. However, their son Keith has done time as well, and so has Susan, and I think possibly Stewart as well. Not sure about Gary.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/32WMzv0N6QWnjQXK8sz8VmY/keith-horrobin (Actor picture warning, for those who hate them!) Info about Keith.

Gary is the one who was living with Bert, Tracy, Chelsea and Brad until recently but has now moved away for work. Single and possibly socially awkward.

Clive robbed the Village Post Office at gunpoint, causing Jack Woolley, Peggy's husband, to have a heart attack. He went on the run and forced Susan to take him in by threatening the children. Susan, very unfairly, was prosecuted for hiding an offender and sent to prison. Questions were asked in Parliament about this!

Later Clive came back to the village and deliberately wounded horses at the Stables as part of a vendetta against George Barford, husband of Christine, aunt of Kenton/David/Shula/Elizabeth and Jennifer/Lilian/Tony. Christine is now living silently in The Laurels. George died many years ago. He was the gamekeeper but one before Will Grundy. He was instrumental in getting Clive convicted of various burglaries (between the armed robbery and the arson attacks?). The Stables connection is because Christine owned it and lived there with George, before selling up to her neice, Shula. Clive set fire to the Barfords' house, Woodbine Cottage, where Jim now lives, with Christine and Jill inside it. I think David rescued them.

So yes, George Grundy has bad influences/genes on both sides. His great-uncle Alf Grundy, Eddie's brother, is another jailbird.

I loved last night's episode. I usually hate Hannah but her putting George in his place was salve for my ears (I bloody hate George and agree with a pp that he's probably a red pill incel in the making). Helen and Natasha are always a great pairing and I love how protective and caring Natasha can be. Helens determination at the end reminded me of the episode where she faced Rob down when he kidnapped Myson. She can convey such fear and strength at the same time.

Another BOOP for Hannah and George. Go Hannah!

HAN-NAH! HAN-NAH!

well played, Neil

Catching up: why would Paddy, who I gather was Northern Irish, be into Dublin and Gaelic Football?

And BOOP for Brian’s pep talk to Adam. Lovely.

And good lord, someone give Tom a slap.

Paddy could well be into Gaelic Football. But absolutely no way he'd support the Dubs over his own county.

Thanks for the Bridge Farm history link. SoI was roughly right about the going organic date. Around the time I started listening.

Helen&Rob storyline was 2013-17 iirc.

Jack's party... hmm good ideas to stay out, but don't know why Helen thought the actual birthday party would be a prime time for Rob to appear - it won't have published time!

(Excuse typos)

The more I think about it, the more I am surprised that there was so little comment about Adam marrying a man from Northern Ireland, when his father was also from NI. You'd think that would have sparked some curiosity in him, no? Or that Jennifer might have remarked on it? Or Peggy, or Lilian? Or in fact Ian, and Ian's family!

It's not like Ambridge is crawling with Ulstermen.

And why on earth they have decided to reinvent Paddy as a Dubliner I have no idea.

My theory is Erin knew Paddy but he was not her father. The stories she told about her childhood sounded rehearsed and unlikely (“he loved rugby too”)

I’m not even sure he’s really dead. Why doesn’t Adam ask to visit his grave? He doesn’t need an invite from Erin to stop off in Dublin en route to NI with Ian. If she is unable to provide details of his burial place then it’s game over. Unless the story is he was cremated and here you go Adam, I’ve put some of his ashes in this little urn for you. Has he asked if Paddy has siblings? There may be Aunts, Uncles and cousins. I just find it bizarre that he’s accepted everything Erin told him at face value. He’s usually quite cynical!

As for Miles…none of the siblings I know sound exactly alike so it’s all very odd. When he called Helen why didn’t he just identify himself?!

Norah McAuley was from Northern Ireland too - Irish people generally have been handy for luring Archer-adjacent people into more or less inappropriate liaisons, and back in the day no-one was going to admit the 26 counties existed. Siobhan and those Declans were trailblazers.

The usual format of a non-molestation order is, so far as I am aware, that it prevents the defendant contacting the claimant either directly or through agents. So there's a distinct possibility that, by sending Miles, Rob has breached the order. However, I'm not too confident of the SWs being aware of that. The next step may well be Rob instructing solicitors to seek contact arrangements.

I do think it's to the SWs' credit that they're showing how the trauma caused by abuse can have a very long reach and still be only too present years later. However, that does make it all the odder that Henry has apparently never had therapy.

More likely to be George who walks in out in horror at the concept of being expected to do some real work for the first time in his life. Unless Martin is stupid enough to interfere again, in which case he will probably be dealing with a much larger scale walk-out.

I have a solitary quibble about Gasp0de's splendid historical notes:

"It was a very traumatic storyline. Pat became deeply depressed and has never really been the same since. Tony was also badly affected but has largely suppressed his emotions about it, in a very male way. Helen's eating disorder emerged. She was really horrible to Hayley, John's ex-girlfriend, who was attempting to keep John's business going in his memory. Many of us have never forgotten or forgiven that."

Helen's eating disorder started after she chucked Greg-the-gamekeeper and while she was still refusing to speak to him, he committed suicide.

It didn't happen after John's death. Helen came home for his funeral, stayed for ten days (27th February, 1998 until 9th March, 1998), and then went back to college until June, followed by taking a prolonged holiday (Lowfield, 14th June, 1998: "Helen is not coming directly home for the summer, she's off on holiday for a few weeks first"). When she did finally come back to Ambridge on 23rd August, she discovered that during her absence Hayley had been holding Pat together and being a comfort to the family, and immediately set about getting rid of her. I am among the many who have not forgotten or forgiven that.