Archers thread #148: Unseasonably, it's panto time in Ambridge. He's behind you, Pat! BANG. Discuss the Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think George Grundy isn't a psychopath, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Will Rob return, or are they playing with us? Will Pat run amok with her shotgun and wipe out half the village? (We can but hope ...) Will Oliver come to his senses and turf the Grundy clan out of Grange Farm? So many questions, so much time.

Over to you!

Hopefully, that was nothing. Hannah will have left plenty in the tank.

<rubs thighs in anticipation>

Later Clive came back to the village and deliberately wounded horses at the Stables as part of a vendetta against George Barford, husband of Christine, aunt of Kenton/David/Shula/Elizabeth and Jennifer/Lilian/Tony. Christine is now living silently in The Laurels. George died many years ago. He was the gamekeeper but one before Will Grundy. He was instrumental in getting Clive convicted of various burglaries (between the armed robbery and the arson attacks?). The Stables connection is because Christine owned it and lived there with George, before selling up to her neice, Shula. Clive set fire to the Barfords' house, Woodbine Cottage, where Jim now lives, with Christine and Jill inside it. I think David rescued them.

George Grundy is named after George Barford, because George B was very encouraging to William's gamekeeper career.

Thanks, Asking! Yes, grimness upon grimness. We then had the sad interlude of Helen trying to be a second mother/cool stepmother/big sister/whatever to Greg's daughter Annette, and when she found out Annette was pregnant (after an incident I certainly heard as sexual assault from Helen's boyfriend Leon which Annette told nobody about) she pushed for Annette to keep the baby and said they would bring it up together. When Annette sensibly ran for the hills, Helen decided to have a baby herself as a single parent, using a sperm donor, and Henry is the result.

IIRC didn't Helen get Tom to take the rap for her driving whilst over the limit?
i always thought she was a nasty piece of work, especially how she treated the lovely Hayley.

Is it time to face the truth? There never really was a time when it was mainly farming and change counting, was there?

I don't think Helen's nasty, more like, needy.

Well I guess not.
What with Walter Gabriel's elephants in the 60s, Jenny becoming an unmarried Mum around then, domestic violence and alcoholism between Peggy and first Jack, Grace dying in a fire on ITVs opening...

Yes, she did. She was drunk. And the person she knocked over was Mike Tucker. And she let everyone carry on thinking it was Tom….

Hmm how have I only found this thread now? Have listened to The Archers on and off for twenty years. Hearing these back stories are a bit concerning in that whilst I can’t say that I ever really liked Helen, I never saw her as nasty. More weak and insecure….quite a believable character. Will I judge her more harshly now seeing all these character flaws laid out chronologically?

@Rosula
I do think it's to the SWs' credit that they're showing how the trauma caused by abuse can have a very long reach and still be only too present years later. However, that does make it all the odder that Henry has apparently never had therapy.

It'd certainly be interesting to hear more from Henry's own point of view, now that he's 12.

Assuming they allow him to develop a proper speaking part, and he's not destined to be forever Freda Fry-silent!

@AngryBirdsNoMore if he was catholic from NI then he would / could have been a GAA supporter.

The rugby team is an all Ireland team so it has support from "both" sides.

The Erin thing is very fishy. Agree he would have done a lot more googling and not just taken what she said such face value.

Helen's very close to breaking point, isn't she. Henry is old enough to notice and wonder about this.

Good point, Gasp0de. It would be really interesting to give him a proper voice at this point.

Welcome, @DrBlackbird , now you can never leave!

Tom’s ownership rights over Chris Carter seemed very misplaced. His sense of general entitlement seems to obscure any understanding of how the world works.

Meanwhile, I usually find Ian very very boring but his kindness last night was very genuine and perfectly-pitched.

Good writing all round.

Gah. Missed yesterday’s omnibus. I have to go listen and return here. Thanks @TherapistInATabard I’ll be motivated to stay on top of the storyline now!

I'd love to hear how that conversation with Tracy goes:

The thing is, Tracy, currently you've got Chris on your team, because you asked him first and because he's your nephew. But actually he should be on my team, because he's a good player, and I want all the good cricketers to me on my team so that we can beat yours. If you have the good players, you see, you might win. And that wouldn't be fair, would it? Also, I was going to ask him before you did, but I didn't get around to pulling my finger out until Adam reminded me (I've got a lot on, you know, my life isn't all easy like yours is) so you really should have realised that I was going to ask him and left him for me. And Tracy, look, I don't want to have to say it because I like to put on a veneer of being all modern and forward thinking, but when it comes right down to it, you're a woman, I'm a man, I should win. In life generally, but obviously especially in sport. Sport is our thing, Tracy, Chris will want to be with the real men's team (and Pip, I had to take her because I can't think of 10 named male characters who would feasibly be better than her, you know #not every man!). Don't get me wrong, you're actually a pretty decent cricketer, for a woman, but we can't let you beat us, that would just be wrong. So we'll take Chris, ok?

I usually find Ian very very boring but his kindness last night was very genuine and perfectly-pitched I love Ian ❤️ It is surprising that he has not been more suspicious of Erin though - and eager to meet her and give her a grilling. Between Ian (Northern Irish expertise) and Lillian (knowledge of Paddy) Adam should have had this sewn up.

Brilliant. All too depressingly plausible. I've just been glancing over Twitter where a young bearded man (inevitably) has been berating Glasgow women who had the temerity to meet to hear women's poetry and a health campaigner/stand-up talking about women's experiences and issues. These uppity women have talked back to Beardie and he's had no alternative but to block them all, of course! (He is funded by the Scottish equivalent of the Arts Council, the others are not, of course.) Pah.

I wonder if Tom has a beard.

Amazing @Fink i was wondering exactly what Tom’s justification for thinking Chris should be on his team was. You’ve spelt it out!

You never actually hear Tom having a nice normal exchange with women outside his family do you. He probably thinks they’re only good for two things: shagging and organic produce.

@Fink have you considered a job as an Archers writer? Sounds like you’d fit right in!

@FallonsNewCoat boring but kind and well-pitched sums Ian up I think. He’s in the Lee camp of boring men who nonetheless just get on with being nice. Im really glad his pizza van is working out and he seems so happy as a father of a small child - much as he’s so very dull. Like Lee, nice chap who does nice things for those around him - but please, we never need to hear about his superhero collection ever again.

Sorry, you and @DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry are right. I missed the crucial word ‘Dubs’ before ‘Gaelic Football’. Need to proof read more effectively. My NI cousins were into GAA when they were younger, didn’t mean to erase that part of NI Catholic culture.

@DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry very interesting point on him having married an NI man when his dad was also NI, and no one ever having commented!

@AngryBirdsNoMore it was me who observed that nobody ever commented on air "how funny that you've fallen in love with a man from NI when your father -whom you have never met- was from there"

You'd think that Jennifer might have pointed out to him that they had similar taste in men! But Jenny, lovely as she was, didn't have much of a sense of humour.

I bet Lilian thought it though...

Thinking of tonight's episode, is Ms Tregorran doing all this pro bono?

The other thing is, why on earth hasn't Helen Googled the shit out of the issue like any normal person. Or is it one of those TA things where there are a gazillion spare rooms for everyone to mover into, but no-one uses the internet to Find Stuff Out?