Archers thread #148: Unseasonably, it's panto time in Ambridge. He's behind you, Pat! BANG. Discuss the Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed, and of course we are always delighted to welcome back former or occasional listeners/posters. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think George Grundy isn't a psychopath, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Will Rob return, or are they playing with us? Will Pat run amok with her shotgun and wipe out half the village? (We can but hope ...) Will Oliver come to his senses and turf the Grundy clan out of Grange Farm? So many questions, so much time.

Over to you!

Well.

That was a bit more stress than I need at the start of the weekend …

I turned it off. Gcse maths resit today has been quite enough stress.

I want to hear about a summer fete or something.

That was very well acted. Brava to both actresses. It sounded real.

Ah that's sounded more like the start of a realistic storyline re Rob wanting contact with Jack.

Helen will discover it is nigh on impossible to keep a father from seeing his child especially with no evidence of potential or real harm being done to the child.

Kidnapping can be framed as his desperation to be with his beloved baby.....

It does sound as if he might indeed be very different now. Maybe seriously, or even terminally ill himself? We didn’t get to hear why he’d sent an emissary.

Perhaps his ‘unshakeable alibi’ for the phone call was that he was in hospital receiving treatment?

Could I ask a question of the farming folk/longer term listeners on this thread please? I’ve been catching up with this weeks episodes tonight and the Tom/Tasha/Tony drama.
How realistic is it that Tony would be quite so livid that he genuinely wants his son off the farm? I suspect I am projecting massively, but in my line of work, I work with companies and brands that are generally B corp or else would love to be organic/carbon nuetral/etc but there is a recognition that it’s not a perfect world etc, so most people/companies are doing their best in imperfect situations. It struck me that while I can see Tom and Natasha regretting their decision, and Tony being angry about the entire thing, it seemed an extreme reaction to tell Tom it was a total abandonment of the Bridge Farm principles; more of a family dispute (which yes might be awful but would blow over) as opposed to such a ideological battle ground.

However I’m a relatively new listener (about 12 years) and I know next to nothing about the realities of farming, much less an organic farm, so wondered if any could shed any light on this - are there genuine practical reasons aside from the ideological that this is so terrible for an organic farm, or is it more about the family drama (I’ve never heard Tony like this but perhaps I’m mistaken). Alternatively it’s just a plot device to frame the Rob/Helen SL - or perhaps building to something else around the old SL about Natasha and money?

I hope I don’t sound hideously naive - I can completely believe there would be many cross words and anger, and I understand the ‘PR’ side of it as it were, but is there a practical farming context I’m missing here - I can understand perhaps you might discipline a staff member who might be under a non compete but seeing how nepotistic most of the farmers are in Ambridge it just seems so OTT.

That q was a lot longer than intended! Sorry!

Presumably because he himself is under a harassment order and not allowed to come near

leftshark, I think it might be a case of the last straw: Tom has let down his parents, and Bridge Farm, and organic principles, so many times that Tony was feeling him to be utterly untrustworthy and unreliable and simply let it all out.

Excellent acting on the part of the Gnasher and Helen actors. I liked the way Gnasher's fearsome bark was practised on Tom beforehand - does everyone do this to him?

It does sound as if he might indeed be very different now

Not buying this for one second. He's a rapist.

I'm with you @echt.

Trying to remember what we know about Miles and how much we've heard from him in the past. Just a couple of episodes, and that he was inheriting the family farm?

We heard of him but never from him, and Helen never met him.

thanks @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime! If thats the case then I'll maybe do some research into the backstory, but mostly that's made sure that my sunday morning omnibus (re) listen will be less jarring for me! 😁

I thought there was going to be a ‘but he’s dying!’ dramatic reveal. The Helen and Natasha actors work well together.

I also think maybe Adam is going to end up back at Home Farm permanently.

@WitcheryDivine
Yes! Jon Glover.

@leftshark Tony & Pat have been organic for decades, long before it was trendy, when it was a risky business decision that other members of the family (eg Brian) scoffed at. It is at the core of their farming principles.

Tom has at least twice gone off piste already. Once when he decided to make his pigs 'welfare friendly' instead and the pigs moved to Home Farm for a while. Then in the Rob days with I think using non organic feed or something (bit hazy as Rob was too stressy so I stopped listening regularly).

Using the twins to advertise a huge agro giant (or whatever it is) is a huge betrayal, and Tony, a man of principal, will feel it greatly. Plus they are under stress re Rob's return too. I wouldn't feel the farm's organic future was safe in Tom's hands either.

Going organic wasn't just a matter of agricultural theory, it was Tony's last great hope of saving his marriage. They were on the ropes, he'd hit the bottle (and had enough awareness as the child of an alcoholic to know that wasn't good) and Pat was having a dalliance with her sociology lecturer. Tony pulled the organic proposal out of nowhere as a thing to reunite them. And it worked, despite all the doubts and scoffing of neighbours.

Tom and Natasha have no idea what they are undermining.

@DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry I did not know that. Thank you.

The huge thing in the background of all stories involving Bridge Farm which newer listeners* may not know about is that Pat and Tony had three children. The eldest, John, was killed when his tractor overturned on the farm. Tony found his body. It was a very traumatic storyline. Pat became deeply depressed and has never really been the same since. Tony was also badly affected but has largely suppressed his emotions about it, in a very male way. Helen's eating disorder emerged. She was really horrible to Hayley, John's ex-girlfriend, who was attempting to keep John's business going in his memory. Many of us have never forgotten or forgiven that.

John was still very young at the time, but old enough to have had many ups and downs, including establishing the sausage business which Tom took over once Helen had wrested it back from Hayley*, having an on off thing with Sharon Richards, Clive Horrobin**'s ex, and (unknown to John himself) fathering her son, Johnnie, now working (silently at the moment, sadly) on Bridge Farm, having grown up in Leeds.

Amused that someone who's listened for 12 years feels she's a newer listener!
**Hayley was a townie, trained nanny, John's girlfriend, then Roy's wife. Stepmother to Phoebe, mother to Abby. Left Roy after he had an affair with Elizabeth and now lives in Brum with Abby and a new partner. Greatly missed. Originally played by Lucy Davis, daughter of Jasper Carrott, so there's another family link to TA.
Clive Horrobin - brother to Susan and Tracy. Psychopath. Probably still in prison. Armed robbery, arson, animal cruelty are just some of his convictions.

Brilliant summaries of The Past!

What year or approx year was it when they went organic - maybe 1986, or was it earlier?

The story of Bridge Farm: (contains photos):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thearchers/entries/cc276f82-97d3-3e2a-bc20-5c30270a5bbe

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g 😁but look at all this back story I didn’t know! my first memory is actually very very young listening in my grandmas kitchen aged around 4/5 (so 1990?) but my mum hated it with a passion, so I only picked it up again sporadically in my late 20s. it’s probably fairer to say I’ve only been a religious listener for 6 years - is that Rob/Helen vintage?

thanks so much for the help @TeenDivided @DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime - that puts a lot into perspective - I do enjoy it when they play the longer game and you see these stories coming to fruition over time. And I’d almost forgotten about Johnny! I don’t think I was totally aware of his back story - I vaguely knew his dad had died young but hadn’t really connected the dots. Poor lad - my last real memory is of his woes with his hair loss, just wanted to give him a hug. I hope he’s back speaking soon and gets a good SL.

This is so helpful! Thank you.