Archers thread #142: Kill Jill? Is Ambridge heading for a Tarantino-style bloodbath on Stir Up Sunday? Discuss The Archers here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points, although we do mostly try to be civil about it. Most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that , or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please! We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/talk/radio_addicts/4636789-the-archers-spoilers-thread-7-cant-wait-for-702pm-join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Well, things have taken a turn for the better in the last few days! The SWs have re-discovered their form and the actors and directors have risen to the challenge. I won't say much more than that for fear of jinxing things. Over to you!

(Thanks to @JanglyBeads for the thread title idea!)

I just think he didn't need to know

Yup. She started out fretting about whether he had any say in the matter, i.e. whether he could prevent her having a termination, then went and told him anyway. Why? It just made everything more difficult for her.

@LillianGish , she told him because there was a possibilty that they'd be co-parenting.
It sounds like you are saying that she should have not told him regardless of whether or not she had a termination.

In the real world a very quick Google would have shown the useless Pip how to make a highly effective spider costume, but heaven forbid she takes advice from anyone.

Agree with Jangly that the choir was far, far too good for a first run-through. It’s a random collection of (mostly press-ganged) amateurs. There might be some decent singers in there but a lot won’t be. And as for Jolene handing out music….how many of them can actually read it?

I agree she shouldn't have told him. Even if she'd had the baby it would have been endless hassle with the Archers. She never wanted a relationship with him.

Another Hairy McClary lover here. Such great books to read aloud. I have to confess to being astonished that they are not Scottish, they lend themselves very well to a Scottish accent. I think Slinky Malinky is a name that is older than the books, I’m sure my mother used it and that would predate Hairy McClary. I used it as a generic term for all the very naughty black foster kittens I’ve looked after.
I am very much looking forward to a Christmas wedding on TA.

If she'd had the baby it's virtually inevitable that it would have come out that it was Ben's. As soon as the pregnancy became obvious he would have been doing the maths and working out that it was likely, especially if Chelsea wouldn't say who the father was.

As soon as the pregnancy became obvious he would have been doing the maths ...

It was never clear to me that Ben even remembered his fumble in the field.

I really don’t see … why Jazzer should have refused to tip off David and Ruth about his mental state. Jazzer said “it’s not our business and Ben’s got plenty of family around him”. I don’t think he realised Chelsea alerting someone could be critical. He’s working under the erroneous assumption that some of his family will realise.

It’s true we’ve got the worst of all worlds now. Chelsea pregnant with unknown father was a fabulous means of defenestrating Russ - and the story could have ended there. And we could have had ‘random lad, swift termination’. Once Ben was named I anticipated a whole new chapter in Archer history - entirely here for that. But no, they’ve gone with Ben + no baby Archer. Worst Storyline Ever.

Obviously she would have had to tell him if she was thinking of having the baby and wanted to co-parent, but there was never any suggestion of that, in fact her greatest fear in that respect was that he might try and stop her having a termination. Not for the first time I find myself in complete agreement with @TottersBlankly - this is a worst of all worlds storyline.

@Chemenger I'm sure there was a rhyme:
Slinky malinky long legs/ big banana feet / went to the pictures / but couldnae find a seat
Might just be my family though!

I've seen similar in a Glaswegian autobiography.

If she'd had the baby and not told him, it probably wouldn't have been long before people started to notice that the Horrobairn looked uncannily like some of the Archers. Remember what happened with Baspo - Debbie saw that he looked just like Alice did at that age.

How could Chelsea have been expected to bring up a child on her own, when its cousin was being co-parented?

Why should Chelsea not have told him? To not cause any problems? Too get rid of it without bothering anyone else? Tracy had already accused CMR.

Reminds self that it's fiction

I'm not sure that they ever had that much to do with each other so he wouldn't necessarily notice and do the maths. Even if he remembered the drunken fumble he might have assumed she was sleeping with other people too.

At the point at which Chelsea was worrying about fathers' rights in pregnancy, and asked Alasdair to find out for her, we didn't know who the father was. The fact that she was worried suggested it might be someone unpleasant, like George.

But it was Ben. Why was Chelsea worried that Ben would have rights over her pregnancy?

Also, didn't Tracey suggest that Chelsea should tell the father? It wasn't something she did entirely off her own bat.

I don't for a minute think Chelsea should have been forced to keep the pregnancy to herself, just to insulate Ben from the results of their joint actions. Hits the wrong note with me to think that the working class girl should just absorb and deal with the Nice Young Man’s problem without troubling him with it in any way. BUT in fact I think she went to see him not because she was asking for help but because she felt he had a right to know, because she seems to have a strong streak of fairness/consideration for the feelings of others.

Also, because she didn’t know what he would say and it might have affected her decision - whether he’d said yippee I’m so excited to have a baby and I am happy to raise it here on the farm, or he’d said oh shit no way I’m not having anything to do with it. In the end he just said it was up to her so it didn’t really have any impact, but she wasn’t to know that beforehand.

Much like the continued perception on here that Beth left Poor Ben when in fact he distanced her then threw her out. Not EVERYONE is out to get him, only Vince and Jill are.

I really hope the scriptwriters realise that the listeners are having a hard enough time at the moment without needing a suicide storyline. That’s why I think they will stop at self-harm or an attempt and then depict suitable help and a recovery, like they did with Alice’s drinking.

I am unconvinced that Ruth will be any more worried about Ben because Chelsea tells her that he's being strange than she is now – and what is Ruth then going to do? If Ben refuses to talk to her, which he does, and declines offers of help, which he does, she can't force him to go to a doctor any more than anyone could force Chelsea to go to one: Ben is an adult just as she was.

So I don't really see how Chelsea saying anything to Ben's parents would be critical, because I don't think it could make any actual difference.

They can't force him to talk or accept help, but Chelsea telling them that she suspects he might be taking something might alert them to seeking help on how to help.

Yes it would because Ruth will take any suggestion of MH problems seriously.
Then she's in the situation of anyone close to someone with serious issues - try and persuade them to seek professional help, offer to talk, monitor as much as possible, seek professional advice on what to do yourself.

You mean that Ruth has not already twigged that Ben has a mental health problem going on? I thought that she'd realised this over a month ago, when she was present for the wild expulsion of Beth and Ben's subsequent weeping fit and generally OTT behaviour. Did she really not grasp at that point that this was not the cheery Ben she used to know?

I honestly can’t believe how much Ruth and David seem to miss about their family’s lives.

Which is why Jill’s input with Ben has always been so significant.

Why don't they just bloody phone Ruth to tell him the dog's at home. Then sort out the rest.

Joy is being brilliant.

I've been shouting that for the past 5 minutes!