🦈 Archers thread #137: See left - have they jumped it? Discuss The Caseys - sorry, The Archers - here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Steph Casey is a wonderful addition to the programme, or similar odd views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Too dispirited to add much else. Have we reached a new low?

I suppose the Archer twins will be born before we need a new thread. 👶👶
Any thoughts on names? Patrick and Antonia were suggested before - inspired! Peggy has to be a strong contender.

Over to you!

...her (Rosie) not it.

I think my guess early on was two girls - I think Seren has benefitted as out of the two names it's the best - Nova ? - I keep thinking car (!)

Of course Phil & Jill were there 60 odd years ago when they chose Kenton and Shula for their twins

I'm waiting to see what Mrs Mum Natasha is going to be like ........

Gorgeous Welsh singing but didn't realise Gnasher could do harmonies n all!

And poor old Daddy...

@KirstenBlest , the first Seren I knew would be well over 40 now.

The first Nova I know is in her late 70s .

I'd agree that Seren is the better of the two names, but it is still naff - it is exactly like calling a child Star. Enfys is even worse.

I knew someone would say 'cwtsh'. The word makes me cringe and I'm not sure if it is an official Welsh word. I'd say it was modern but someone would probably say that it was a word written in their hen-fam-gu's diary from 1897.

Poor Tom.

I'd agree that Seren is the better of the two names, but it is still naff - it is exactly like calling a child Star. Enfys is even worse

That's what Stella is? Do you object to Stella? Or has Stella passed beyond meaning star?

Nova is however awful.

Here's a real person called Star , although spelled "Starr".
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Starr_Faithfull

Wasn't there a little girl called Star in the news fairly recently?
Stella has been in use a long time, and it's not a noun in the UK. It's not a word that is in everyday use like star (film star, gold star etc)
I suppose you could argue that Iris is used fairly often, but it's a flower name, so not quite the same.

Star Hobson- terrible, terrible tragedy.

All I could think when listening tonight is that TA seems to be turning into Curious Under The Stars.

I counted 5 snipes/moans from Gnasher about Tom in the first 90 seconds of today's episode. She just didn't stop. Only her mum thanked him with any warmth in her voice.

Quelle vache. Someone can come and say it in Welsh.

I don't mind "Star" as a name or Seren.

Iris, Rose, Ivy, Lily, Holly, in Laurel, Daisy, Violet , Poppy, Marigold, Primrose, Hyacinth, Ruby, Pearl, Amber, Beryl, Jade , Emerald , Mavis, Robin, Wren , Scarlett , India , Skye, Faith, Hope and Charity are all "things" And Paige ( yes , I know there's an extra i )

There are heaps of Italian words and a number of French words used as names. I don't suppose UK parents would call their daughters "Quickly" or "Moon" or "She" or "Flowers" but Allegra, Luna, Elle and Fleur are a different matter. The Welsh for Star is better than a French pronoun.

Freddy and Russ were the best bit.

Why are they making Chelsea into such a horror?

Personally I find Seren too close to Wren, and I'm not a fan of Nova.

Finding Natasha's miracle pain free c-section and instant milk supply all a bit much tbh. I r had two and whilst the second was considerably better than the first (despite the first being elective, and the second emergency) there's definitely no casually leaning forwards and a whole lot of whelping.

Hope Mr Gish is still recovering well
I too find the archers very comforting regardless of quality, especially when I've a few in the bank.

Personally I find Seren too close to Wren

Wren was Kirsty and Tom's still born baby? If so , yes, too close.

And whilst I am one of the least superstitious people you'll ever find, I still think offering Wren's baby clothes to Gnasher when Gnasher was pregnant was seriously weird.

I think Natasha’s Mum is Jan, the paramedic, from Casualty. She was a salt-of-the-earth character for a long time until she took a wrong turn and started smuggling drugs into the local prison for her son. There was a reason for it but we were all shocked at the time.

She’s actually not being that unbearable. If she had her own bedroom it might not be quite so bad- she just seems to forget that Tom is a bit more than Natasha’s housemate.

Iris, Rose, Ivy, Lily, Holly, in Laurel, Daisy, Violet , Poppy, Marigold, Primrose, Hyacinth, Ruby, Pearl, Amber, Beryl, Jade , Emerald , Mavis, Robin, Wren , Scarlett , India , Skye, Faith, Hope and Charity are all "things" And Paige ( yes , I know there's an extra i )

Most of those are flowers or gemstones. Robin is a diminutive of Robert.
Some of them aren't 'things' and some of them are, um, not very aspirational.

Allegra, Luna, Elle and Fleur
I'd not use those if I were based in the country where they are everyday words. Quickly makes me think of Mistress Quickly. Moon, She and Flower aren't good names.

Anyway, they are Nova and Seren and we're stuck with them. I wonder of if the language will be an issue. The singing was nice but not sure if it was the right place for it - stereotyping perhaps.

Natasha and her mum are well and truly making Tom feel like a spare part - I thought they might have allowed him a 'cwtsh' (hate that word too) with at least one of his daughters. It feels slightly false because Caitlin has been such a distant figure up to this point - presumably she's here so they can pile on the Welshness in contrast to Welsh Pat who feels hardly Welsh at all by comparison. I'm quite interested in the bilingual aspect which is very much a marathon and not a sprint in my experience - Natasha will have an uphill task if she wants that stick while bringing up her twins in Ambridge (unless Caitlin's move to the sofa bed is a permanent one).
Thanks so much for the continued best wishes for Mr Gish who is making good progress.

Caitlin asked Tom to sit on the sofa with the babies towards the end yesterday but he decided to go and update the website. I found the singing a bit much though and not surprised he felt pushed out.

Natasha losing her shit so quickly at one of the babies crying doesn’t auger well. I think she’ll get quite angry when the Perfect Twin Girls scenario she’s created in her head doesn’t quite go to plan.

I was nodding along when Caitlin told her to take her painkillers. My biggest error post c-sect was to stop taking mine on day 2 as I ‘felt fine’. The following day I was doubled up in pain back at the hospital. The nurses sharply scolded me and sent me home with DP under strict instructions to make sure I took them 3x a day even if I was pain free.

Tom needs to insist on singing a few English lullabies, otherwise he'll be totally pushed out.

Considering it's major abdominal surgery, you get sent home very fast these days after a c-section. My mum stayed with us for several days after my daughter was born (first child) but was a lot more tactful. I hope I was too, and didn't make my husband feel like a spare part.

The midwives tried to convince me I was ready to leave the morning after my c-section. I was unable to walk at that point but was told I just needed to get up and moving.

My mother was called Nova.

She was born in 1936. It was very unusual at the same, never met another Nova. I've always liked the name. But then I would i guess.

I don't understand why Chelsea hasn't been sacked. The way she speaks to the customer (eg Ardil) and also management (Freddie) is unbelievable. And to her coworkers.

She won't make much progress with a career if she continues in that vein. For someone who is supposed to be smart I'm surprised that she doesn't realise that her attitude and rudeness is counter productive.

Blimey! I was told I was being discharged a day or two before normal (family circs) and that was four days after the op. Early 90s.

Totally agree about Chelsea. With luck Brad will soon find his feet and show her up.

I intend fast forwarding Gnasher, Sausage Boy, Pinky and Perky and Caitlin until P&P are at least starting school.