🦈 Archers thread #137: See left - have they jumped it? Discuss The Caseys - sorry, The Archers - here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you think Steph Casey is a wonderful addition to the programme, or similar odd views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Too dispirited to add much else. Have we reached a new low?

I suppose the Archer twins will be born before we need a new thread. 👶👶
Any thoughts on names? Patrick and Antonia were suggested before - inspired! Peggy has to be a strong contender.

Over to you!

Nova is awful. My daughter goes to school with one and my husband likes to make car comments when she’s mentioned (out of my daughter’s earshot). I hope that this inspires Tom to start learning Welsh rather than being an ignorant oik demanding his family speak English around him.

Celyn seems a slightly odd choice for the boy-that-never-was if it means Holly - though I suppose that's illogical really.

Is it normal to have time for a chat with Baby Number One before Baby Number Two comes out? I have no idea about childbirth and certainly nothing about caesareans and twins but it all seemed very unhurried. I’m sure bonding with Nova was important but I couldn’t help feeling there was something else they should be focusing on rather than cooing over how clever Daddy’s girl was…

I hope that this inspires Tom to start learning Welsh rather than being an ignorant oik demanding his family speak English around him. Not as easy as you make it sound. It’s all very well for my Welsh colleague to say “you just say what sounds right”, that only works if you’re surrounded by people speaking Welsh. I gave up and tried Russian instead - much more accessible.

I was with my daughter when she had twins by 'normal' delivery(with loads of doctors/nurses/ventouse etc.) and I held the first while the second was born (husband was there too supporting her) but they did seem to chat for an awfully long time yesterday. I would think if Natasha was lying there cut open there would be even more need for speed.

Must listen to the fillum tomorrow. There was a funny comment on Twitter (might have been by @ TheCiderShed) along the lines of "can anybody supply the sound effects for two oranges being pulled from jelly" which still makes me chuckle now.

If I met people of Tasha's ages who called their child Nova I would assume they were Oasis fans.

I really hope not Fallon. She has said she doesn't want kids and I would really like not for PC Plod to change her mind.

Because they're piglets 🤣

I know someone with twin boys called Taran (thunder in Welsh) and Thor. I always thought Taran might feel miffed at his brother being the king of thunder 😄

@Footle, it is a welsh word that's only fairly recently started to be used as a girl's name. It's dreadful.

George may have been surrounded by love but some the adults who dispensed it were dysfunctional. Given the chaotic start in life with his mum and the uncle/step-dad who was despised by his biological dad until quite recently it’s not a huge surprise his behaviour is challenging. He would have picked up on all the antagonism.

I do think his bullying of Brad was all a bit pantomime villain and completely over the top.

I know a Seren who is 30. She is Welsh.

@MuddlerInLaw asks who's going to be pregnant next?

The 🔮 hints that it will be Lily, but who will the father be?

Dun dun DUNNNNN!

@Quia, less odd than Celyn for a girl. I don't like Celyn, but like Seren might be ok for a pet. Seren doesn't sound bad in Gnasher's accent, but it is Serr-enn in most parts of Wales or Serrun if non-Welsh speakers.
Norah is nicer than Nova, and I'm inclined to agree with @ButtonSister .
Taran is beyond dreadful, Thunderclap.

I'd find it hard to learn Welsh, because they teach the vernacular language.
For example, 'Dwi'n hoffi coffi' not 'Yr
ydwyf i yn hoffi coffi', and to negate that, 'Dwi ddim yn hoffi coffi' not 'Nid ydwyf i yn hoffi coffi'. Not a big problem until you get to the sloppy use of Welsh as in 'Mae o ddim' which is grammatically incorrect and should be 'Dydi o ddim', which is clearer if you started with 'Yr ydwyf i yn...'
With a 'cup of tea' they teach 'dishgled o de' (I wince at dishgled as the sh isn't Welsh) or 'paned o de' not 'dysglaid o de' or 'cwpanaid o de'.
The word for cuppa depends on your accent.

Like I say, I know it's illogical, but we would normally expect a Holly to be a girl.

I've always thought Seren had something to do with Serenity, so I've definitely been educated today.

Welsh is especially difficult as a beginner because of mutations. <heavy sigh>

Like I say, I know it's illogical, but we would normally expect a Holly to be a girl.
Holly Johnson? Or is that not his real name?

I don't imagine many baby boys have been called Holly, but two adult males who come to mind are Holly Johnson from Frankie Goes to Hollywood (real name William), and Holly Martins (fictitious, admittedly), the main character in one of my favourite films ever, The Third Man.

Apparently not. I am now an expert as I checked on Wikipedia. He adopted it when he was 14 because an actress he liked was called Holly.

Aha! This Holly, namechecked in A Walk on the Wild Side. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holly_Woodlawn

@Quia , Seren is just star.
Serenity translates according to the context, and can be 'serenedd' but it's not a word much used,

@KirstenBlest am impressed.... but not remotely enlightened, I have to admit. My mum learnt some Welsh when she farmed there for a decade.

@EBearhug , I'm glad I didn't have to learn them. I imagine if you don't know what a word means or how the mutations work, it might be hard to recognise something like 'chwyn' as a form of 'cwyn' (complaint). Translation software might translate it as 'weeds'

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g , celyn is a masculine noun. Holly is ok as a name as it sounds pretty, like Molly and Polly, but is a bit christmassy

@HaveringWavering , that's modern. I see it like calling a child Planet or something.

I’m still not sure how a name in use 30 years ago could possibly be “modern”? Do you perhaps mean “non-traditional”?