🧦 Archers thread #133: Woolley socks it to them! Discuss The Archers and its Woolley thinking and plotting here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you would love to take part in the Mysteries, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @ButtonSister and @BorsetshireBanality for title suggestions. I went with their idea in the interests of keeping the title fairly short.

@LillianGish and @FoxgloveSummers made cracking but longer suggestions, which (mashed up) will do a great job of kicking off our new thread.

Evictions (Tom and Tash), depictions (Bridge Farm Christmas card), conniptions (entire cast and crew of the Mysteries), convictions (Philip) and addictions (Alice) - what are our predictions for 2022 in Ambridge? All sure to make this the Best Ambridge Christmas Evah!

This thread should take us through to early January unless something very exciting happens (ha ha, fat chance). My predictions: this is a bit left field, but I wonder if Peggy will offer to buy the shop and flat so Tom and Gnasher (great coinage, whose was it?) can stay put. I don't believe Hazel is sincere about wanting to live in/regularly visit Ambridge. She's always been utterly two-faced and rotten to the core, why would she change now?

The Mysteries will, of course be a triumph and briefly borrowing the🔮 (sorry, Bore!) I expect we are going to hear them at some point over the New Year period.

Over to you!

[quote WhoppingBigBackside]**@FoxgloveSummers, Myfanwy? Cerys? Blodwen? Gwen?

Blodwen is a great-grandmother's name, and not really usable
Myfanwy hasn't been used much for over 70 years. Nice when sung by a male voice choir but definitely grannyish
Cerys - 1950s/60s name. Mainly used in the south, Carys in the north. Now more likely to be used by someone who didn't already know dozens of them. I don't think either of them are nice. I was served in a shop (Home Counties) by a teenage Carys recently - no Welsh connection.
Gwen - popular now after not being much used for decades

If they pick a Welsh name, it will probably be mispronounced. couldn;t believe it when Welsh Pat called Olwen Olwyn. Shibboleth.

[/quote] I have recently met a Myfanwy in her mid thirties and also a Iestyn. They are parents of kids in my son’s class at school. I saw their names on a list before I met them and was completely blindsided that Myfanwy was American and Iestyn was Australian.

They are not parents of the same child, by the way. Two separate children have one faux Welsh parent each

I know a gwen in her early 20's (from north wales) Bethan (30s from north eng), cerys i associate with cerys matthews (singer from catatonia) & myfanwy with little britan (last 2 from my youth so, in my mind im still young so they can't be that old can they?)

North Walian here - I know several Gwens, Bethans and Caryses in their 30s.
Hearing Tom going on to moneybags Peggy about his shopping list for a house and fancy pram reminded me of a spoiled 90s child going through the Argos catalogue with a marker pen in December. Ugh.

@HaveringWavering, there are names that people use because they 'have a welsh connection' and there are names that non-Welsh speaking welsh give their children,
and they are not the names that Welsh speakers give their babies..

If you look at the 'Welsh baby name' threads, the names suggested are often misspelt, or not even Welsh, and there are usually arguments about pronunciation, with posters saying that it is perfectly OK to say the names however you like.

The 'faux-Welsh baby names are either bonkers (Olwyn), great-grannyish (Myfanwy, Ceridwen), look pretty (Rhiannon, Arianwen) or just wrong (Meredith, Bronwyn). The names are often mispronounced

The non-Welsh speakers tend to use names that are 'mum & dad names', ones that have been massively popular a few decades ago with the Welsh-speakers (Osian, Gethin, Dylan, Bryn, Rhys, Huw, Elis, Angharad, Bethan, Rhian, Carys, Siân, Eleri, Manon etc) so sound tired

The Welsh-speakers choose names that are new or fresh. There are some cracking names in my extended family. I usually think 'Really?' when a new one turns up

The welsh who don't speak Welsh are ones like in Gavin&Stacey. They have their own dialect, a form of Wenglish.

The Welsh-speakers are like a nation within a nation, with it's own language and culture. There is prejudice and there are issues such as use of language, so the baby naming can encroach on cultural appropriation.

Tom talking about the fancy pram seemed like he was angling for Peggy to pay for it

Apologies for the essay.

Sorry, why did I apologise. I care passionately about my culture and language

It wouldn't let me change my name to TînMawrAnferth

Apropos of nothing, I love the name Iestyn, I worked with one and he was one of the loveliest men I've ever known.

Iestyn isn't much used but is nice enough. I think it is more popular in the more southern parts of Wales

@WhoppingBigBackside

Tom talking about the fancy pram seemed like he was angling for Peggy to pay for it

Apologies for the essay.

My point exactly! I was willing Peggy to point out that she had already stumped up for one marital home for him and would not be repeating the mistake. My favourite recent baby name I heard was Branwen which I love. Every other baby boy is Idris.

Branwen is a very old name from the Mabinogi.

I've heard the name Idris/Idriss a few times recently. I'm not in Wales.
It was hardly used until quite recently, and as a muslim name was considered an old man's name

Why doesn't To have any money? Why don't they build a pigstyhouse on Fridge Barm land?

Where will Pat & Moany go when Tomtasha decide they need more room for Pinky & Perky?

[quote WhoppingBigBackside]@HaveringWavering, there are names that people use because they 'have a welsh connection' and there are names that non-Welsh speaking welsh give their children,
and they are not the names that Welsh speakers give their babies..

If you look at the 'Welsh baby name' threads, the names suggested are often misspelt, or not even Welsh, and there are usually arguments about pronunciation, with posters saying that it is perfectly OK to say the names however you like.

The 'faux-Welsh baby names are either bonkers (Olwyn), great-grannyish (Myfanwy, Ceridwen), look pretty (Rhiannon, Arianwen) or just wrong (Meredith, Bronwyn). The names are often mispronounced

The non-Welsh speakers tend to use names that are 'mum & dad names', ones that have been massively popular a few decades ago with the Welsh-speakers (Osian, Gethin, Dylan, Bryn, Rhys, Huw, Elis, Angharad, Bethan, Rhian, Carys, Siân, Eleri, Manon etc) so sound tired

The Welsh-speakers choose names that are new or fresh. There are some cracking names in my extended family. I usually think 'Really?' when a new one turns up

The welsh who don't speak Welsh are ones like in Gavin&Stacey. They have their own dialect, a form of Wenglish.

The Welsh-speakers are like a nation within a nation, with it's own language and culture. There is prejudice and there are issues such as use of language, so the baby naming can encroach on cultural appropriation.[/quote]
Dh is first language Welsh (from Ynys Mon) and DD1 (25) is called Bethan. DD2 (22) is Catrin. I have a first language Welsh speaker friend with children a couple of years older also called Bethan & Catrin (although the other way round). I am not a Welsh speaker, although over the last 30 years have learnt a lot by osmosis due to DH & family and our DC all being bilingual.

We do have friends from Ynys Mon (who still live there - we don't) with children's names that you wouldn't hear outside Welsh speaking areas (in my experience, I'm not an expert) - Llio & Guto spring to mind, although they also have children with names from your "non Welsh speaker" name list - Osian and Carys to name but 2. All of the couples I'm thinking of are both (ie mum & dad) first language Welsh speakers.

Perhaps we're all the exception that proves the rule?

@WhoppingBigBackside

It wouldn't let me change my name to TînMawrAnferth

😂

It did rather sound as if Tom was hinting to his gran that twins were expensive. As someone who spent £30 on my kids 3-wheel off road buggy off eBay (15 years ago), the idea of spending £500 on a second hand buggy is appalling.

@emsiewill, I know a few Llios, and the Gutos tend to be older. (think Guto Harri and Guto Bebb sort of age)

The names tend to not get used when there's already one or two in the family, or already used by neighbours.

I wouldn't use say Osian or Carys because I know loads of them. At least 3 in the extended family, several in the village I'm from etc

It depends how old you and your friends are @emsie. I was referring to parents naming their children in the last 8 yrs or so.

My young welsh relatives pick very Welsh names for their children - they'd consider Llio and Guto quite tame. Llio and Guto are both nice.

I was at school with a Guto. His parents gave the children Welsh names that were fashionable for the time. He said it Ghee-Tow. At least he got half the letters right.

Tomtasha twins will be Pincwen a Pyrcwyn

[quote WhoppingBigBackside]**@emsiewill, I know a few Llios, and the Gutos tend to be older. (think Guto Harri and Guto Bebb sort of age)

The names tend to not get used when there's already one or two in the family, or already used by neighbours.

I wouldn't use say Osian or Carys because I know loads of them. At least 3 in the extended family, several in the village I'm from etc

It depends how old you and your friends are @emsie. I was referring to parents naming their children in the last 8 yrs or so.

My young welsh relatives pick very Welsh names for their children - they'd consider Llio and Guto quite tame. Llio and Guto are both nice.

I was at school with a Guto. His parents gave the children Welsh names that were fashionable for the time. He said it Ghee-Tow. At least he got half the letters right.

Tomtasha twins will be Pincwen a Pyrcwyn[/quote]
It's true that all of our children are much older than 8...so you got me there!

One of the quads on Coronation Street is called Llio after one of the paramedics that delivered them (on the cable car on the Great Orme ). They all (ie her parents and family) say her names as "Cleo"...

A shallow person writes: the problem with Iestyn is I keep reading it as Lestyn but with a lower case l. Apologies for lowering the tone.

Bound to be Stella in the Flat of Requirement, isn't it? Tom'n'Tash could take over Willow Cottage when Brian and Jennifer buy Home Farm back, at a rock bottom bargain price when the Gills default on their mortgage and it gets repossessed. (Surely we must be expecting something like this?)

Who lives at Nightingale Farm these days? Matt Crawford used to own that at one point, but lost it. Silent people?

One of the quads on Coronation Street is called Llio after one of the paramedics that delivered them (on the cable car on the Great Orme hmm ). They all (ie her parents and family) say her names as "Cleo"...

That's offensive. That is so offensive

There was a Rhiannon on Doctors.

He said it Ghee-Tow. At least he got half the letters right.

But that’s how they pronounce Guto-used-to-always-be-on-TV-fell-in-with-the-wrong-crowd-how-I-miss-his-lovely-nose-Hari. Even yesterday on the radio. How should it be said? (Embarrassed to adore a name I don’t know how to pronounce properly.)

I love the name Iestyn, I worked with one and he was one of the loveliest men I've ever known.

Singer? (Haven’t met him but colleagues of mine who worked with him were full of praise.)

Ah, the Gills … Given their profligacy in the matter of kitchens I had rather assumed they paid the full price of the Home Farm house straight up. Interesting that they don’t appear to have retreated to Ambridge for the duration of the pandemic. But perhaps they have somewhere in New Zealand …

@LiterallyKnowsBest, really? Bloody hell.

It's Gitto. The o at the end is like the o in dog or Tom, and not like the o in no or so.

The 🔮 is of the opinion that the Brookfield Bungalow would be perfect for the Sausage Family. No stairs, see. And freshly redecorated.

The rent will come in handy and the thorny issue of whether Josh or Pip should have it will be satisfactorily resolved.

@BoreOfWhabylon

The 🔮 is of the opinion that the Brookfield Bungalow would be perfect for the Sausage Family. No stairs, see. And freshly redecorated.

The rent will come in handy and the thorny issue of whether Josh or Pip should have it will be satisfactorily resolved.

I agree.

Coincidentally, I managed to burn Toad in the Hole this week.

Just saying.

I tried a different recipe to my usual one. Silly me.