❓ Archers thread #126: It’s a mystery why we’re all still listening.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you’d love to be on the Parish Council, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/4197199--The-Archers-spoilers-thread-6-Cant-wait-for-7-02pm-Join-us-here, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish and @Taswama for thread title ideas, but I felt most in sympathy with @R4's suggestion. Is it me, or is the programme in the doldrums at the moment?

Haven't heard the 31/3 episode yet. Perhaps it's a gem.

Would good friends have turned their backs like F&H have? Fallon knows what happens when the sufferer is left to their mañana tendencies and Harrison will know about all the official resources available - he should have arrested her to force the issue (and to protect his own professional skin, too, when the truth comes out)

I wouldn't at all expect a police officer to know much about the 'resources ' for problem drinkers; neither should people be arrested 'for their own good'. He should have nicked Alice solely on the strength of the offence she was committing. With luck, the fact that he didn't will emerge and have unpleasant consequences.
And since Fallon wishes to distance herself from Alice, Alice's drinking is absolutely none of her business any more. It's no one's except Alice's. Not even Chris's: his is only how he chooses to react to it.

Just had a horrible thought.... how woe is me will Shula be when Alice’s secret comes out? I’ve got my finger primed for the off switch when we get the inevitable “Why didn’t I know? I could have done something, I’m a terrible cousin(?)” self-flagellating.

@JanFebAnyMonth Chekhov's gun refers to the idea that if there is a gun on the wall in the second act of a play, someone is going to get shot with it in the third act. So by analogy, if something happens that doesn't seem to have a purpose at the time it's often going to come into play later.

Alice's drinking is absolutely none of her business any more. It's no one's except Alice's. Not even Chris's: his is only how he chooses to react to it

It very much is his business. He has to live with her and she's a real danger to their child. I suppose he could just leave her.

Thanks Cecile. Am not sure that principle always applies in Ambridge!

Came here to say: Ambridge farm fairy strikes....

Tracey and Jim 🥰.... she’s a keeper Jazzer!

@JanFebAnyMonth

What is a chekov’s gun??

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun

As I said, MissBarbary, how he chooses to react to it is his business; Alice 's cohices/decisions are her own.

she’s a keeper Jazzer!

Isn't she the (gobby) coach?

@MissBarbary

I wonder if Chris was the drunk rather than Alice if he'd get as much sympathy as Alice is getting on here- including all the scraping of the barrel to find reasons in his childhood and family dynamics.

I don't like Alice- she is spoilt and snobbish without Kate's saving grace that Kate is at least amusing.

When is the christening? This Sunday? Will Chris just let this go? Fallon and Harrison are being set up as the bad guys but is Chris too dim not to work out something must have happened and whatever it was, it wasn't him?

In all of this story line I feel most sorry for Chris, having to cope with her self-indulgent behaviour and no doubt all the sympathy will land on Alice.

Isn't alcoholism a disease though?

So we should be more sympathetic than we are inclined to be?

(Disclaimer: Have never known any alcoholics on the Alice scale. Well maybe one, a long time ago, and we are no longer friends.)

@theThreeofWeevils

As I said, MissBarbary, how he chooses to react to it is his business; Alice 's cohices/decisions are her own.

I think that's a bizarre take on it- as I said before I doubt a husband behaving as badly as Alice would get that response.

I think Fallon might be more sympathetic to Alice if she hadn't had an alcoholic father (although that's the first time I've heard him being to referred to as such, unreliable yes).

I thought Fallon yesterday was excellent, giving the child's perspective and contrasting that with the excuses. I hope it helps shake Alice out of the idea that things can be made to be what she says they are, if she just wishes and insists hard enough.

It's an illness.
I know a functioning alcoholic. Nothing like Alice.

I made no comment as to whether Chris as a drinker would garner more or less sympathy than Alice. However, don't a lot of the 'support' groups for relatives of substance abusers go rather heavy on 'you didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it' as a mantra? He cannot decide what she is going to do, and should just deal with what he can control, i.e., his own actions. By stopping breastfeeding, Alice has lost a valuable card. After all, a woman removing her infant from the ambit of a drunken parent would be cheered on. Probably to the echo, hereabouts. Alice is no longer necessary to its physical survival, so Chris could take the baby with similar approval, couldn't he? And petition for supervised contract only.
Heh, bring it on.

*contact, ffs, not 'contract'

I thought it was a brave thing for a friend to do, to be so honest, direct and unforgiving.

So often friends value the friendship more than the truth, so are the last people to question ones choices. They'll pussyfoot around, being supportive, trying to see their friend's point of view, finding the good in a bad situation. Then when the person chooses to leave that situation, they often get all aggrieved and ask why their friends didn't tell them they were wasting their time.

Similarly, people post on here, get harsh, direct responses and say 'but no-one in my real life tells me to my face that my DH is an abusive arsehole, so he can't be!'. Of course their real-life friends are all delicately ensuring they remain friends, by not causing divisions and upsets, so they can be there for them in the end.

I think it's a brave and true friend who, when there is a real problem, damaging their friend, names it and demands that it be dealt with, even though they're risking their friendship to do so.

I agree @lottiegarbanzo

@Mumblechum0

I see him as Ralph C Nesbitt's younger, slightly handsomer brother

I didn't know what my vision of Jazzer was till you posted this. I have always found Rab C Nesnitt fanciable Plus Jazzer is well practiced and good in bed.

Who do you reckon that red haired actress was that Tracey was on about?

BOOP for Tracey and the rest of them all making an effort.

a brave and true friend who, when there is a real problem, damaging their friend, names it etc

Were Fallon and Alice ever particularly close? Can't say I noticed. But then again, since Fallon jacked in the music and became just another tedious yokelette, I possibly have not been hanging on her every word.
This 'friendship ' feels retrofitted to me. And don't even start on them being 'rela'ed'. Then again, I consider a sister-in-law to be not really family, more a malevolent bystander...

Fallon and Alice have never done anything together have they? Fallon was a friend of Jazzer and Ed’s, not really even Emma’s friend. The social divide between Alice & Fallon is huge & without sexual attraction or a mutual interest there’s nothing to bring them together.

I don't think the "social divide" is relevant. Alice may be Brian and JD's daughter, but she's also Chris' wife. Her in-laws are the Horrobins and the Grundys. Her neice Phoebe's father is Roy.

@Dulcinae

I don't think the "social divide" is relevant. Alice may be Brian and JD's daughter, but she's also Chris' wife. Her in-laws are the Horrobins and the Grundys. Her neice Phoebe's father is Roy.

And it’s not really that much of a social divide-JD grew up in the same pub as Fallon!

I thought Chris and Alice were couple friends with Fallon and Harrison, haven’t they had dinner parties and similar?

With Fallon and Alice it’s not so much the social divide but a maturity divide. Fallon has always been much more proactive and responsible.