Archers thread #115: Johnny's in the gym, Josh is in a jam, Rex is riled, Kate's with child - discuss The Archers here

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to share a camomile tea with Kate, or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @LillianGish for the excellent Bert Fry tribute title!

I don't think this thread will get us to Easter, but we should be well into Lent before we need a new title. I wonder if St Stephen's will have a new oh-so-interesting Lent initiative this year. When did we last hear from Alan?

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime
Women still do the majority of the household tasks/child care, and domestic admin. That is consistent from most surveys. Especially once they start to have children.
There have been examples of exceptions to this for a very long period of time - but in the 1970s Tony was quite right - and we even have the record to show that Pat did most of the cooking etc.

Another episode I enjoyed enormously because of the quality of the acting. I can really believe in Ed n Em, whereas I just get irritated by Lillian and her cackling.
And i did like the little reminiscing scene with Tony to help us old fogeys remember the old Pat before she was de-feministed.

I can remember having a discussion in the office I was working in 1978 about whether men should help with housework. Even the people who thought men should help thought my suggestion that they should take equal responsibility was laughable.

Gosh, you all lived in different circles from mine! In the mid-seventies when Tony was talking about, the married couples I knew definitely shared the cooking, at least before they had children and she stayed at home to look after them until they went to school, at which point she had more time at home to cook in.

And before anyone complains about her staying at home, nurseries were a lot less available then, not regarded as the norm for all children once they were weaned, and she would have been earning less than him because of being a woman: the Equal Pay act may have been in 1970, but it definitely hadn't yet begun to have force in every case nor when the work done was not equivalent. Also, children didn't go to school before they were four, and in many places/cases not until they were five, so there was a longish time during which someone had to look after them during the day.

Until she got caught up in childcare Pat did work outdoors on the farm rather than staying indoors and being a good little housewife -- and five months after John was born she was out doing the haymaking with Tony, and then she was in charge of rearing the calves on the farm. She was not just "a farmer's wife" as Jill had been: she was a farmer in her own right, and not afraid of hard work. That was what she had been doing in Ambridge in the first place: helping her Uncle Haydn to run his farm.

Much of the trouble between them was that Tony expected her to be like his mother, and she wasn't.

I was a teenager in the mid 70s. Of all the married couples I knew, it was almost unheard of for couples to share the cooking, as far as I was aware. My Dad more than pulled his weight around the house, but he only cooked if my Mum was ill, and when I say 'cooked' I mean he heated something up or got a takeaway or when I was older gratefully accepted my offers to step in and prepare the meal.

My own husband never cooks either. He doesn't enjoy it and has never made any real effort to learn. I have no doubt he would cope if he had to, as he's a very capable person.

Haven't heard tonight's episode yet, so will duck out now!

Oh what a tedious episode.

The scriptwriters excelled themselves tonight with the use of that awful cutting-across-speech trope. Lynda and Freddie's 'conversation' contained absolutely nothing else

Ruth and Pip's little chats were odd, too. Very clunky.

Much of the trouble between them was that Tony expected her to be like his mother, and she wasn't

You'd think he would have been quite relieved about that, wouldn't you...

Ruth and Pip's little chats were odd, too. Very clunky

And boring. Why can't Pip, Ben and Josh car share 2 cars amongst 3?

Why can't Pip, Ben and Josh car share 2 cars amongst 3? Because Pip and Ben were given cars for their 18th, so now insisting they shared with Ben would be taking away a bit of their birthday present. And giving a car to each of your older children then telling no 3 you can't afford it is a great way of demonstrating exactly where they stand in your affections. Any normal parent would be very aware they'd given their children a car for their 18th, and if they really couldn't afford it for no3, they'd have been preparing thr ground, not expressing surprise at the mention of it a few days before their birthday.

I think Ben pestering his parents for a car is really mean. Fancy him suddenly springing his 18th birthday on Ruth like that! He should have given her some warning that it was coming up so she could plan.

Lolz @ Freddie. "My life is ruined because of people pre-judging me, you interfering supercilious rumour-monger you."

X-post with MereDint

But Josh wasn't given a car when he was eighteen! His mother didn't even bother to be there for his birthday that year. He didn't get one until later when he got one for himself, the one he has just sold. Can't you imagine how much fuss there would have been if he'd sold one that David and Ruth gave him?

I would give a BOOP to Freddie for losing his temper with Lynda: it's time someone she'd been harassing and bullying gave her what for. It was not a conversation, nor was it meant to be: it was Lynda butting into Freddie's workplace and Freddie not being prepared to listen to a word she said, because she has spent the last few weeks bad-mouthing him all over the place to all and sundry and he didn't want to hear it all over again.

I liked that Lynda at least kept trying to apologise, it wasn't like the usual exchanges when someone keeps stopping the other from saying their piece.

At the start of the episode I found myself hoping that Lillan wouldn't be in it. Ever since she returned from Jersey she has not seemed to be the Lillian I remember of yore.

I was shocked and horrified that Tom didn't let the cake cool in the tin for 5 minutes before turning it out

Why can't Pip, Ben and Josh car share 2 cars amongst 3?Because Pip and Ben were given cars for their 18th, so now insisting they shared with Ben would be taking away a bit of their birthday present. And giving a car to each of your older children then telling no 3 you can't afford it is a great way of demonstrating exactly where they stand in your affections

If Pip and Josh weren't such appalling spoilt brats they could offer to share their cars as their birthday present to Ben.

The fact Ruth and David gave the 2 elder children cars is completely irrelevant if Ruth and David genuinely can't afford it now. And if they genuinely can't afford it the decent thing to do would be a car share amongst the 3 siblings

The whole family is insufferable.

Coming from a family where we always try to be scrupulously fair to all siblings - and not only to be fair, but be seen to be fair - I can’t believe the Dopeys haven’t budgeted for this when they first decided to give a car to golden child and Pope of farming Pip. Of course I now realised I have answered my own question - this is a family very happy to have favourites, so happy they actually locked Ben in the cereal cupboard for years until they could decide what to do with him. The idea they can’t afford it is a bit of a red herring IMO - if it was something Pip wanted/expected then money would be no object.

I find I can't summon up the energy to care very much about Ben's car, especially as I'm quite certain that a deus ex machina will sort it all out.

I did like Kirsty and Philip visiting the folly on the hill. What a lovely place to get married! I am hoping against hope that they do actually succeed in getting married and live together in great contentment for the rest of their days.

Hmm ... I wonder if it’s simply their vocal delivery that prevents me from believing in Kirsty and Philip’s relationship.

Everything else is there: he says the right things and does the right things, and she always responds, verbally, with delight and happiness.

But they just never sound overtaken by passion. (I despise the overuse of that word generally, but it’s what I mean here.) I’m really struggling to understand a 21st century relationship between two English people which shows so little excitement in the early stages.

But yes, I hope she gets her dream day.

I like Phirsty and want them to be happy ever after.

The Dopeys just get more and more annoying, which I didn't think was possible.

What appeals to me is that they don't sound overtaken by passion! They've been together quite a while now and they sound like two people who really enjoy each other's company and are on the same page generally with respect to all the important things in life. That's what for me is entirely lacking in a good many other Ambridge marriages, e.g. Tom and Natasha. It makes for rather dull radio drama, but contentment and companionship in my view are the key to a successful marriage.

are on the same page generally with respect to all the important things in life

I don't know about this. She would love to have children wouldn't she? And I'm not sure Gav hanging around like a bad smell is quite the same. Is Gavin Philip's only child?

I couldn't believe the stuff Tony was coming out with, the sneering way he said 'women's lib'. I would have like Tom to object but the whole conversation was depressingly true to character.

I also loved Freddie giving Lynda what-for. She will manage to apologise at some point but she needed to hear that, especially with the collapse of the ReBullution

I'm with Ben on the birthday present.
I don't like Pip.

Wonderful that we hear their relationship so differently, Gasp0! I completely agree that contentment is a precious thing. (Suspect I could count instances of true contentment in my own life on the fingers of one hand, not two ...)

And perhaps you’re right that it’s good to receive varied portrayals of romantic love.

It wasn't so much what Freddie and Lynda were actually saying that annoyed me.

It was the overused trope of one character talking over another, and never letting them finish a single sentence, that riled me.

It's just ridiculous, and I don't think I've ever met anyone who does that in real life.

And if anyone ever does try that with me, they wouldn't do it again in a hurry

I confess I was taken aback that Freddie was so rude to Lynda, his hierarchical superior, in their workplace, and it seemed to be fine, Lynda was chastened and Freddie was not chastised. I would never in a million years have dreamed of behaving like that to any colleague in any job I have ever had, and would expect to be fired or at least disciplined if I did!

The exchange between Pip and Ruth where she suggested Ruth share her own car with Ben but never mentioned the possibility of sharing her own amused me, it was so perfectly reflective of the dynamic in that family - awful.

Finally, Tom and Tony - I did find it quite sad that Tom explicitly links Natasha having left him with him now having to be perfect or she might leave again. She might not even be doing it consciously but that’s a horrible position to be in. Tony’s relationship advice was dreadful, though! White lies liked telling someone they look fine or a mistake they made wasn’t obvious or something, maybe, but surely open and honest communication is key to a successful relationship?!

Thankyou, CeciledeVolanges.

You said all that so much better than I could!

It's just really rude behaviour - not to mention the fact that Freddie has caused himself another unnecessary day or two of fear and worry by not allowing Lynda to speak to him.