Call #111 for Archers advice: Is Hilda breathing? Should Joy be breathing? Could Nelson Gabriel be in cryogenic suspension? Discuss The Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Joy's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have - BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks for all the input on title suggestions. I'd missed the significance of 111, but @R4 and DDD, our resident numerologist, were right on to it. Strongly tempted by Bore's suggestion but couldn't resist the chance to mention my favourite ever Archers character, Nelson Gabriel. Have not managed to incorporate a cricket reference, so you'll have to read up on that for yourselves. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_(cricket)

I wonder if this thread will last till Joe's funeral.

Do we need to stage an intervention of some sort?!

Why was Helen being so sniffy about Beechwood children? Can someone remind me who profiteered from selling the land to build the estate ...

I'm in my late 30's and I went trick or treating when I was a kid so why are Helen and Tony acting like it's only been around the last 5 minutes.

What the fuck is wrong with the writers at the moment, it's like I'm listening to a different program recently.

MUM - thanks - amongst it was!

I'm in my late 30's and I went trick or treating when I was a kid so why are Helen and Tony acting like it's only been around the last 5 minutes

If one is Scottish or grew up in Scotland it is permissible to be sniffy about trick or treating's usurpation of traditional guising with neep lanterns. I think this applies to northern England as well but not Borsetshire.

amongst ?

whilst

How can they obsolete? What other words would you use?

They were all being sniffy about Beechwood children, especially Lynda. Newcomers, I suppose.

For the second time in a week I have to say quelle beau de lollox. Robert would not be so incredulous as to believe a ghost story, even if it was told by the prof.

MikeUniformMike
load not lod

Ah, don't spoil it, MUM! A lod of tosh sounds ever so much more lumpen and dreary, sort of like a solid bit of the mud that clags up your wellies on a winter walk in clay country. (And I don't think there is a proper word for that, the bit that dries a little and then comes off onto the hall floor and is a total pain to clear up; I think I shall call it a lod from now on.)

How can they obsolete? What other words would you use? Among and while.

And I don't think there is a proper word for that, the bit that dries a little and then comes off onto the hall floor and is a total pain to clear up; I think I shall call it a lod from now on. Isabella Tree in her book on re-wilding the Knepp Estate, claims that the Weald has more words for mud that the Inuit are supposed to have for snow - so maybe there is a Wealden word for "lod".

Asking those are known as clarts round here.

I liked Jim's story, though not Robert's reaction. But what a weird Halloween party. Round our way (in areas with a relatively high density of kids) a Halloween party would include taking all the children Halloweening together. Guests would arrive in their Halloween outfits. For the smaller girls it would be another chance to wear a princess dress. Speaking of which, l found it odd that there were several comments about kids not making a very good effort to dress up, neither this year nor last.. Plus these days the less artistic parents, of which I was one, can now buy cheap outfits from the supermarket.

Was Henry not allowed to invite any school friends? Or perhaps they were all going to go trick or treating so couldn't come! And the Beechwood snobbery is certainly misplaced - these are people who have bought their own homes. Keira couldn't make it, but had Ed and Emma's plans not gone awry, Keira would have been a kid from Beechwood.

How can they obsolete? What other words would you use?Among and while

I never use among or while for amongst or whilst.

I use amongst and whilst. I don’t have lots of words for types of mud or snow (yet).

That episode was ridiculous. Tony & Helen wouldn’t be moaning about the children living in the estate that gave them financial freedom. For one thing they’ve only just moved in and there are only a few affordable homes, didn’t we know how many at one point as that was why Ed & Emma were so worried they might not get one?

Halloween with Emma would have been a lot more fun, she’d have let Keira dress up & she & Susan could have talked about how much they enjoyed decorating the house.

Or Ben & Rory could have been planning playing tricks on people. Could have got some humour that way, with them being thwarted.

It looks like opinion is mixed. There are articles describing amongst and whilst as archaic, other articles (though the most recent I could find was 2013) carefully explaining the differences between among/amongst and while/whilst. It seems they've declined further in US "English" which would explain their absence in spellchecker dictionaries. This article is middle of the road - a graph showing the decline (from very low frequency of occurrence to very very low frequency), but it's 2012, and I think things have changed since then stancarey.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/whilst-amongst-amidst-old-fashioned-or-normal/

I see from this thread that it is still not safe to enter the water as the shark of shit storylines is still cruising at will.

I liked Jim’s ghost story. I think if I were sitting in a lonely birdwatching hide in the dark I might well have reacted like Robert! I’m not sure I’d have been keen to go home in the dark by myself though. A nice touch for Halloween.
If mumsnet is to be believed Halloween was imported to England from the USA approximately three and a half minutes ago, even though it’s always been a big thing in Scotland. In which case Ambridge, which tends to exist in 1955, would be surprised by incomer trick or treaters. When I was a child in the 60’s in Scotland we would go to a Halloween party for apple dooking etc then go guising, which would have pleased Tony, since children do perform a turn of some kind( usually a song or a joke) in return for a treat. No nasty tricks involved.

BuckingFrolics making an early bid for the title of the next thread, I see.

Very taken with DoctorTwo's quelle beau de lollox as well. 683 posts to go before decision time, fortunately. Maybe by then TA will be so wonderful we'll all have forgotten this low patch.

I enjoyed the ghost story bit. John Rowe is an excellent storyteller.

I can only make sense of the Beechwood snobbery by assuming that it's animus against incomers/townies. There's often no logic in this. My parents live in a place with a large number of retirees and other incomers. If you go back far enough, obviously all of these people either bought their houses from indigenous residents or said residents sold the land for new homes to be built - influx of money.

Once on the island, the incomers spend a lot of money with local businesses and tradespeople, and their presence ensures there are a good number of GPs and other HCPs and enough demand to keep the schools, post office, library, bank branches, the Co-op and so on from closure.

The incomers tend to be very keen to get involved in island life so are also doing a lot to keep assorted community activities going.

Are the native islanders happy about all this? No, they are not. There is a lot of sneering about pushy newcomers taking over and throwing their money around. It's more akin to racism than snobbery, I'd say - xenophobia, maybe. We've seen it in Ambridge many times. Lynda is accepted now but it took years, possibly decades.

People are very good at holding two contradictory opinions at once. Just look at Brexit.

I remember Trick or Treating in the 60s/70s, and going to Hallowe'en parties, in London.

After Hallowe'en, we then did Penny For The Guy, usually parked up outside the Co-op, with a Guy sitting in a doll's pushchair.

DoctorTwo, surely Robert was being credulous last night, wasn't he? Not incredulous.

< runs away and hides in Pedants Corner >

We had guising in Scotland in the 60s. When we moved to England, we found the focus in Yorkshire was on Mischievous* Night which from memory was 4th November and then Bonfire Night on the 5th. Mischievous Night seemed to be about taking advantage of the dark nights to engage in minor antisocial behaviour. Halloween didn't seem to be much marked, as far as I can recall.

Pronounced Mischee*veeous Night, which I found baffling.

Villages have their own definition of incomer - growing up in a village in the 60’s we were an incomer family, my grandparents moved there in 1936.

@WheresThatCatGoneNow I stand corrected! :o

Thanks, DoctorTwo

We call it Mischief Night around here (NW England)

Mischievous Night in 60's Leeds...but Bradford said Mischief. They (Bradford) also said Plot Night for Bonfire Night. Even made Plot toffee.Hallowe'en then was a turnip lantern (swede really) carved out lovingly for hours,and then a bit of wandering round the street making ghostly noises. Trick or Treating was unheard of...though Nov 4th was when you risked knocking on a neighbour's door and running away! Nothing worse.

I didn't really 'get' the Hallowe'en party and Helen's sniffiness about that or the Beechwood offspring being labelled troublemakers already. They've only just moved in! Helen is a bit singular in her doings though,so nothing should be a surprise when she pops up.

I loved Jim and Robert in this episode. very atmospheric.