The Archers #110: Game(keeping)'s up for Will. Game on for Lillian & Vince, Tracy & Oliver? Game over for Joe? Stay ahead of the game with all things Archers here.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to LillianGish for the title idea. Very tempted to go with MrsGrindah's suggestion of It’s all a bit crap and boring at the moment but let's be positive, maybe things will look up in the coming days ... Also very taken with Lexi's Midnight Runners - Burpers, maybe? - from Madcats.

Not at all happy about Lily not going to university. Yet another bright Ambridge woman not fulfilling her potential. Why do they do this?

CaptainMyCaptain - I am only able to call on my own experience when I was told I had to stop breast-feeding from one day to the next, when my baby was about 10 months old and I had a thyroid problem. I was just given tablets and the milk had dried up in a few very uncomfortable days. This was in Switzerland, a quarter of a century ago, so I obviously can't speak to Borsetshire today, I'm afraid I just made an assumption!

have never been so bored despite all the plot-driven drama

Because of the plot driven drama IMHO. Soaps need to be character driven. If the LSWs come up with whacky plots and they just put them on the nearest likely character they have to contort the character to fit the plot.

I really don't think that works in soaps - plots need to follow or at least work with the characters.

have never been so bored despite all the plot-driven drama
'Bored' isn't the adjective for me. I've fallen out of love with the programme.
I was away for a bit so did a huge bunch of catch-up and all I could hear was people talking at cross purposes (or talking over each other) and silly women getting hysterical. Sometimes both at the same time (looking at you, Jill).

I want my Everyday Tale of Countryfolk back. I don't want drama.

Hear, hear.

And what about Phoebe’s results?

I don't mind a bit of drama, but I am very fed up with the idea that the only thing drama can be is conflict between two characters.

Most drama isn't about two people having a fight of some sort. It is someone having to contend with things being against them, or someone coping with difficulty, or if it absolutely has to be two people in conflict it is because both are right and the two views cannot be reconciled, not because an obvious baddie like Rob is bullying -- erm, an obvious baddie like Helen, maybe that wasn't a good example but it will have to do.

An Everyday Tale of Countryfolk is more interesting because it's a lot less bleedin' obvious, most of the time.

I'd so like to be able to look back at a programme and think "yes, of course, that's what [Tom/Helen/Jill/Bert/Kenton] would do", rather than looking back and thinking "well, they had to make [Tom/Helen/Jill/Bert/Kenton] do that to fit the plot, but it wasn't very like them."

What sticks in the throat about Jenny is the fact that she took Lexie changing her mind about having Adam and Ian with her during labour as somehow dishonourably going back on a promise. Surely anyone who has been through childbirth knows that, basically, you do what is needed to get through it. If, at that time, you realise that the person you need with you is a female friend of roughly your own age rather than two men or the mother of one of them, it seems to me that that is perfectly understandable and acceptable. Interpreting that as evidence that you're going to backtrack on the entire surrogacy agreement is, to say the least, a massive stretch - particularly when, for instance, Lexie has done nothing to prevent the baby going home with Ian and Adam, and hasn't insisted on following and being with the baby.

There was a thread about the archers on the feminism board a couple of days ago, relating to the surrogacy sl. It drifted to discussion of the archers reliance on DRAMA rather than characters. Someone who worked in the field of soaps/script writing popped on to say if too much drama was really a problem those in charge at TA would have picked it up by monitoring archers discussions on Facebook etc. They claimed this was done on a regular basis. I was agog. Plot driven at the expense of characters is all we ever talk about. Obviously no one thinks we are important enough to monitor

There was a thread about the archers on the feminism board a couple of days ago, relating to the surrogacy sl

Talking of FWR and surrogacy I was a bit surprised to find out MN has a surrogacy board with visiting men asking for surrogates:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3698520-Did-everyone-know-that-MN-now-has-a-surrogacy-board

Considering the range of debate on the issue the LSWs have really covered it in a piss poor manner. This isn't the only place I follow TA discussion and I've not seen any discussion which would suggest to a lurker that everyone is just hunkydory with the idea. Of course if they only occupy a bubble they won't see other views.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3700302-Anyone-else-find-The-Archers-uncomfortable-listening-yesterday?watched=1&msgid=90438547#90438547

This thread. I've just posted there and linked to this thread in case anyone feels emboldened to join us (although I note a considerable crossover between the two threads already).

Jennifer is being awful, I can barely listen.
Adam and Ian were also tone-deaf to totally dump Lexi as soon as they'd snatched the precious baby away. She was so fond of Ian to be prepared to go through all the surogacy prep and the pregnancy and birth but they dropped her like she was nothing as soon as they got their hands on the baby. Jennifer holding the baby before Lexi??? And no calls, no visits, nothing? No massive gift and stuff for what she put herself through for them? Not surprised she was feeling abandoned.

I had thought Lexi might stay, but now I think it's much more likely she will leave because the SW will have wrung their drama out of her and will want to move onto storylines involving two men raising a baby uncomplicated by her role in it.

Much like Adam and Ian have wrung a baby out of her and have no more need of her.

Lexi will leave because she has two daughters at home, waiting for her return.

I don't think Adam and Ian did drop Lexie. I don't think there is any reason to suppose that they were lying in saying that it was a combination of simply thinking she'd want to be left on her own plus newborn parents' sleep deprivation. OK, it was probably crass of them to assume she'd want to be completely left on her own, but they're two middle aged men with little or no experience of childbirth and child-rearing, so it's not surprising that they might be crass about something like that. If they intended to drop her, they'd hardly have called the baby Alexander.

The other thing that bugs me about Jenny is that she was all over Lexie when she agreed to be surrogate and when she was pregnant, and couldn't do enough for her. Now she's served her purpose Jenny begrudges the baby even bearing a name similar to hers, and all she really wants is for Lexie to get out of her family's lives for ever.

Did I miss the episode where Tom Natasha Helen and Johnny were kidnapped?

They're in the cereal cupboard. Pat put them in there and forgot that they hardly ever eat cereal at Fridge Farm. Just soup.

For God's sake, this Jenny SL is beyond ridiculous now. And her absolute determination to erase Lexi from the entire process is really bothering me.

BOOP for Tracey at LL, and especially for telling Russ not to be such a snob.

EBear It was Lily who told Russ not to be such a snob.

Really loved Tracey at LL. Hilarious.

BOOP for the possibility of the scales falling from Lily’s eyes ...

Oh Jennifer, STFU.

And yes, she was all over Lexi at the beginning, but not as a person, as a brood mare whose nutrition needed to be monitored and optimised for carrying Adam's son.

Oh, if only JD would talk to Lexi; if only Brine would talk to Adam ...

You are right. It is BORING.
and tedious
and not at all gripping because we can predict it all before they've even written it.
Pah.

Jenny is awful.

Tracey was fabulous at LL. Russ was just vile

JD has always been a selfish creature so we shouldn’t be surprised. She speaks to Brine like he’s dirt.