The Archers #109: Pulp Fiction! Hammer Horror (Tracy), Carry On (Brian & Neil), Call the Midwife (Adam, Ian, Lexi) - but no political thrillers, Ambridge remains Brexit-free. Nitpick here!

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views. grin

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, @DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to Bucking Frolics and LillianGish for the title ideas, which I had to edit down a bit to get under the character limit.

I wonder if Lily will have gone back to Manchester by the time we've filled this thread.

Yes, I was relieved that they remembered exactly how much it might cost Kirsty, emotionally, to be there.

But really - could it not be possible for the child to grow up with three active parents? The SWs have had plenty of practice ...

I'll grudgingly concede you might be right about that, chemenger.

Re the possibility of a trans storyline in future - please, please no. As others have already said, it would be very hard without a visual element.

So what is the plan for Lexi now? Does she hand over the baby and a carton of Cow & Gate, hang out with Linda for a couple of days and then go back to Bulgaria?

I'm not sure that I can cope with that fake accent for much longer.

I really hope that they acknowledge the physical toll on Lexi, and the wave of hormones post partum, with no baby if her own to make it all worthwhile. And let’s hear more about her financial compensation. People don’t do that sort of thing for virtual strangers for nothing.

I heard the episode as Jenny being so terrified that Lexi will keep the baby - who I'm betting will be named Alex in her honour - that she's unable to see beyond that. She's convinced herself that Lexie will do that, as Jenny herself was unable to hand over baby Adam. Her ruthless focus on Adam, and Ian to a lesser extent, actually getting the baby has resulted in her blindness to anything and anyone else. It was touching and interesting that she did remember Kirtsies miscarriage as she's in touch with the pain of losing a child - ie Jenny was in touch with the pain of losing a child hence her disbelief that anyone could willingly do so (Lexie).

It seemed to me Adam felt blown away by the baby and will want to be around as his primary carer, much to his own amazement.

It fits in with observations bout the way the SWs write to plotlines, not character, wrenching them out of all recognition

Yes I agree. Soaps do best when they are character driven.

Game of Thrones had the opposite problem - it started off event driven (which worked at that scale) but then switched to character driven half way through and it was jarring.

Contorting characters to fit stories just doesn't work well in long term soaps. Jenny is barely recognisable in the current storylines.

You wouldn’t believe the wit and perspicacity of the post that “repeated problems with this page” has just devoured.

Briefly: godparents. Debbie? Phoebe? (Although Ambridge Conservation annoyance.) Adam & Ian / family / v short list of close friends. Helen disappeared.

Posting now for fear of site eating comment.

I've not been on here in months... but I knew where I could find people as incensed with Jennifer as I feel! She's so convinced that Lexi is untrustworthy she's about to spoil everything. I'm desperate for Adam to give her a dressing down.

On not holding the baby - I've had some professional contact with surrogates, and have heard women express a preference not to hold the baby as they feel it will make giving them up that much harder.

Helen is an obvious godparent I would have thought.
No idea who else though, Adam and Ian don't seem to have many friends. Roy would be too weird.

godparents

Tracey Horrobin and Freddie Pargetter.

Lexi's accent doesn't bother me as much as the mummerset accents.
Helen will probably be a godmother. Where is Helen - is she rearranging the vinegar display still?

This is the first grandchild Jenny's been able to be at the birth for Is it normal for women to be at the birth of their grandchildren? I can see the wanting to support your daughter, but I don't think it's my place to be with my lovely DIL unless she specifically asks me. Mind, I had mine when it was still touch-and-go as to whether they'd let your DH in.

Helen is an obvious godparent I would have thought. Oh, save the poor baby from that!!

No, it's not normal for MILs to be at the birth. I had my own mum at the birth of my first baby, only because I'd split up from the dad. I certainly wouldn't have wanted the other grandmother there. If my mum, or partner couldn't be there, I'd ask a friend, or go it alone.

So the complete stranger currently pretending to be Jenny is well out of order, then?

I've not listened and I don't think I can bear to.

Jenny was unbelievable last night!

Jenny has been reduced to a shadow of her former three dimensions

I hate this SL

HATE IT

I can’t quite articulate why it annoys me so much but i’ll have a go

Ok, so surrogacy has been presented as this happy clappy it’s totally fiiiiiiiine only bumpkin ignoramuses have a problem with it yay u go girlfriend situation

Then it’s like the SWs suddenly thought wait but uh oh for a real live woman to give birth and then hand her baby straight over is actually kind of a bummer how do we square this circle

Then they had this lightbulb moment

Hey guys what if we gathered up all of the doubt and all of the negativity and mixed feelings about the huge huge cost to women this happy yay event entails and kind of bundle it up and deposit it on a naggy silly fussy interfering mil stereotype person whose POV we can safely disregard. Wait, we don’t have a character that fits the bill? No worries let’s just give JennyDarling a full on personality transplant from ‘bit daft and fussy, has a blind spot for her kids but in the main is emotionally intelligent and kind, capable of great strength and generosity of spirit when the chips really are down’ to ‘full blown milzilla smash crush puny gestational carrier hahahahaha where is your god now’ , sounds cool everyone ok with that, great

I’m a very regular lurker on this page but I’m going to pop my head up as I have real life experience with this malarkey 😁.
I was a surrogate for a friend coming up to 6 years ago, using donor egg and fathers sperm. When he was born (as suggested by me) mum and dad were there (as was my lovely DH) and the baby went straight to skin to skin contact with mum. Looking over, seeing them together was one of the best moments of my life, I didn’t feel exploited or bereft, only truly bloody proud of what I had done.
I think the main issue is the writers seem to have lost their way with Jennifer, she is normally aware of people’s emotions and I’m cross she’s been portrayed as bonkers!
Also Adam and Ian are beyond irritating so that doesn’t help....

C8H10N4O2
Ah. Cross-dressing doesn't make him trans
Yes it does according to Stonewall. People who formally self defined as transvestite are now in the same bucket as people with gender dysphoria and therefore should be treated the same when they are presenting in that way.

He put on the some of the clothing of the woman he had murdered. I don't think that is evidence that he identified as anything in particular, any more than a woman wearing jeans is identifying as a male cowboy or builders' labourer.

He was presenting as a drunken murderer high on pills, not as a trans-anything-in-particular. I doubt that what the killer was wearing is what was uppermost in the mind of his victim's husband, whereas being left to bring up two small children on his own while grieving his dead wife might have made a lasting impression.

I haven't listened yet, am bracing myself, but have godparents been mentioned on the show, or was that just us having a diversion. Adam and Ian aren't at all religious are they?

Was idle speculation birds! Christenings offer such great potential for drama. (Unless connected to Brookfield ...)

I don’t suppose Alan would turn little Alexander Craig-Macy away from St Stephens?

Ah I see, this is what happens when I read the thread before listening. Although sometimes I think reading other peoples opinions on TA is much more entertaining that the show itself.

Okay finally made it through the ordeal. Poor Lexi.

So interesting iwannabeyourdog thanks for sharing, although my autocorrect can't cope with your name. Your friend is very lucky to have some one as big hearted for their friend.

Back to the archers, I know for me the issue is one of the relationship of Lexi and Adam and Ian. She's a migrant worker who said this would enable her to spend the summer with her girls rather than working abroad. (Side note: My cleaner was a Bulgarian speech and language therapist who left her job and her family to work a zero hours contract as an agency cleaner over here. She missed them terribly and I was so sad for her.) I know we were told she was doing this as a friend but her character feels like it hadn't been around very long before this and for a lot of that their relationship was an employer/employee, not a friendship. This story always felt more like rent a womb than a tale of generosity and friendship.

I was also furious at Jennifer's being touched by the Personality Transplant Fairy last night, though I agree that much of her concern was around the fact she was afraid for Adam and Ian that Lexi would want to keep the baby she'd given birth to. I thought her concern for Kirsty being at the birth after her miscarriage was a nice touch, though. I shouldn't think Lexi knew about it, did she? I think that happened before Lexi arrived in Ambridge?

MollyButton - I'm sorry, I could have sworn I'd read almost exactly the same comment about the editor's personal history in an earlier thread about the possibility of a transgender story, and as yours is one of the few names on MN I remember, I'm afraid I assumed it must have been you who said it first!