Discuss The Archers #108: Has Ed & Emma’s ship sailed? Will Alice stick her oar into Kate's love life? Can Shula walk on water? Come and discuss whatever floats your boat in The Archers.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks to @QuaterMiss for the title of this thread. For reasons of space had to cut out the bit speculating about Oliver and Tracy pairing off. Surely not!

Off now to give blood, something nobody in Ambridge ever does. See you all later.

When was the other gamekeeper SL?

2004. Greg Turner, who Helen lived with. She doesn't have a successful history with partners.

I said scenes but I was really was thinking more when weeks go by without a character being in it ppeat. So the equivalent of your SD getting the scripts for the other episodes in the series.

DD

GrannyClanger he shot himself in a cabin in the woods. Brian found him. It was grim. Poor Helen has been through a lot, with John before that and Rob afterwards.

No wonder Helen sounds so bloody miserable all the time

I think it's asking quite a lot of Helen to take on Will to be fair.

Re my point about Pip being involved in two bids. I know it won’t mean she will gain personally financially if one of the bids wins but it does seem like she gets two bites of the cherry. Although of course we don’t know that there’s a rule forbidding people from submitting mire than one idea. But it would be Pip wouldn’t it?

I must admit, after about 7 years I think I am close to stopping listening. I think the writing is getting really scrappy and to be honest I’m sick of all the misery especially Wills. The “ light relief” isn’t much better either. I’m dreading the Lexi “bebeh” storyline coming back which it will do imminently .

Sorry to moan ..don’t know what’s got into me today! I’m sounding like Will.

Helen had finished the relationship with Greg. before he topped himself, was it a shooting or a hanging? She did blame herself though, I remember Pat saying he was depressed it could have happened anyway

I think Greg shot himself.

I think it will be the lexi baby story that pushes me over the edge too MrsGrindah.

birdsdestiny do you mean if the story is one in which Lexi refuses to give up the baby, or can’t bring it to the UK for some reason? Or just generally Ian and Adam having a baby and being even MORE tired?

Thanks Mike.

That story is not too bad. Either way, though I suppose that Ian's sadness would be hard to hear. No it's the way the Grundy SL is going that is beginning to get to me, there's no respite.

I just find the whole storyline depressing. That there is not one mention about the ethics of surrogacy. It's apparently absolutely fine for women to be hired to produce a baby. And apparently it's fine for babies to be seen as something to be bought. And that it is Adam and Ian we are supposed to feel sorry for. No hint that many people including a raft of European countries feel differently.

I agree! I think Adam and Ian are very selfish characters so I’ve no emotional investment in them yet it will take up a big percentage of the airtime.

And before Greg there was George who was a recovering alcoholic - and quite chaotic before he got together with Christine.

Oh god the behbeh storyline. What a bundle of joy awaits us.

Crikey take my eyes of the thread for five minutes and you are half way through the next thread!

Regarding the whole EdnotEmmur saga:

He pointed out how often he had sought her support when the whole Tim thing was getting too much for him - and how she had invariably batted his concerns away, too focused on buying stuff for the house. Essentially more in love with home ownership than she was with him.

Basically his problem was that she wasn't his mother or simply making him the total centre of her universe. Emma had no idea what had happened that night or even the extent of the illegality - at worse she thought it was a bit of VAT avoidance, not something involving organised criminality and violence.

Emma wants so little really. To have a home that doesn't involve living with her in laws and grandfather in law

Yes this. I find it bizarre that the urgent desire for a secure home for your kids is some kind of selfish materialism whilst Ed is the hero. He had no need to call the mortgage company and kill the opportunity - its hardly like he has ever been a model of probity and rectitude. At that stage he could have said he was going to go back and discuss with Adam/appeal or whatever but he jumped on the first chance to evade any responsibility.

I honestly thought he was being developed into a more responsible character with Emma and the kids - away from the mini Eddie. In reality he is every bit as feckless and self absorbed as Eddie is. He doesn't care about security for his family, just wants an easy life with no responsibility and a Clarrie to wipe his nose for him ever time it gets snotty.

How rude was Pip even being on her phone

To be fair, she was being pretty much as rude as I'd expect. She couldn't be more self absorbed and entitled if she had been sent to Eton.

I thought Phoebe was just asking for Pips opinion on the bid at the party, a critical friend type of thing. I had no idea she was part of the bid. Did that just happen tonight?

I was confused by that as well. I hadn't appreciated she was part of the bid let alone on the sly. Phoebe was quite right to object to that whilst Rex continues to moon over GoldenPips.

Would Oxford PPE not include stuff on giving presentations?

Don't know about PPE but this kind of stuff was certainly not part of undergraduate life in my day. Most of our grad recruits are Oxbridge/similar and don't have those skills either. We send them on boot camp for about five weeks to make them vaguely useful.

I just find the whole storyline depressing. That there is not one mention about the ethics of surrogacy. It's apparently absolutely fine for women to be hired to produce a baby. And apparently it's fine for babies to be seen as something to be bought

But that is woke life isn't it? Women's bodies can be bought and sold and used as "gestational carriers" for the privileged. No worries about long term consequences on the women or the children - the men, and increasinly mixed wealthy couples for whom its a lifestyle choice get what they want, who cares about the rest?

Its a world away from altruistic carrying for a friend or family member but its treated as if its exactly the same.

DD had to give presentations at her non-Oxbridge uni & was given marks and feedback on delivery as well as content. DS is on a BBB entry course and has to give masses of presentations, they need to be able to sell themselves and their ideas to gain employment, probably less of a worry if you did PPE.

[Belated thanks to GaspOde for new thread which I forgot to mention earlier!]

I totally agree Birdsdestiny and C8H10N4O2 disappointing that the ethics of the matter weren't even deemed worthy of "discussion" (within the drama). Ian and Adam just attempted to keep it quiet in order to avoid gossip.

I agree about Ed & Emmur too. I don't know why he is blaming her for being materialistic (ok the brandy glasses were possibly a step too far) when all she wants is for their DC to have their own home. It's not an unreasonable wish.

As for presenting skills: my sixteen year old practices this regularly at school, never mind at university!

I also agree that Will, despite being traumatized, is behaving very erratically in a desperate attempt to try and control and manage everything on his own. I hate to think where this sl will end up.

DD had to give presentations at her non-Oxbridge uni & was given marks and feedback on delivery as well as content. DS is on a BBB entry course and has to give masses of presentations, they need to be able to sell themselves and their ideas to gain employment, probably less of a worry if you did PPE. That's an interesting comment. I was just musing on the fact that DS at his ex-poly did presentations, and had his skills further honed by his sandwich year in a govt dept inc. presentation to a junior Minister. Stood him in good stead when it came to finding a well paid job after uni. You're probably right - students at non-prestigious unis have to be able to demonstrate their abilities.

My primary problem with the whole surrogacy storyline is that Adam and Ian will be 52 and 49 if/when the baby arrives. Surely somebody in Ambridge would have thought to discuss this at length (Jenny and Kate were 22 and 21 when they had children, Susan was 21, Pat 23....).

Also, imagine the conversations back in Bulgaria! Lexi has to be about 35 weeks' pregnant by now, so wouldn't Jennifer be getting unbearably excited? Maybe she is too busy househunting/stalking the Gills.

Jenny was in her 40s when she had Alice. Kathy was in her 40s when she had Jamie.
Ambridge has very few teenage pregnancies - far more age 40+ surprise pregnancies.

Who was it who mentioned Isabella Tree at Knepp Estate? They’re interviewing her on the subject of re-wilding on PM right now.

Isn’t Peggy’s meeting tonight? Guess it’s deliberate.