Fast falls the eventide for Joe Grundy, the darkness deepens for Ed - will he be fenced in or is there still time for acts of pennants? Abide with us and discuss The Archers, thread #104!

[GabrielleNelson]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit and more recently when someone forgot they had promised to start the next thread, ahem.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from this thread, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks also to LillianGish for the splendid thread title. As actor Edward Kelsey died last month, we have probably heard Joe Grundy for the last time, or will do very shortly. RIP Mr Kelsey; many thanks for creating a wonderfully vivid character, gnarly toenails and all.

As pointed out on the last thread, we're getting very close now to the 100th birthday of June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley. What an achievement! I hope the team manage to squeeze Peggy into that day's episode, come what may.

Sorry haven't RTFT but had to come on here (occasional lurker mostly) after hearing last night's episode. I have listened to the Archers for many many years but I am not at all sure I can deal with listening to Shula dithering over a possible vocation for the foreseeable future. The divorce was bad enough. Argh! Thank you for providing an appropriate space for a small vent....

Ref. Camilla, did anyone notice, Lily and Freddie discussing their cousins? I wonder how much 'backbone' those 2 lads have got when they're away from Mummy

ref. Sheila (I liked Camilla's passive/aggressive way of calling Shula Sheila ) You're very welcome Dana She's become quite human now, but how much time would she have to run the stables, be MOH, and be a conscientious vicar ?

Kenton is taking the piss but David is odd. He seems to have gone from annoyed to full on hysteria ("I have no brother") in a nanosecond over a relatively small amount of money. I recall him trying to talk to Kenton about the money a few weeks ago but they were then both distracted by Elizabeth's breakdown and the issue has now suddenly escalated out of all proportion. It sounded as if David was going to collapse.

Everyone is acting out of character at the moment. Clarrie declaring Freddie was not to go anywhere near her grandkids is a prime example. She has never been particularly judgmental or uncharitable before.

I haven't been listening long enough to have any recollection of Camilla but I found her absurdly rude behaviour a bit cartoonish.

The reference to Pargetter cousins for me wondering. When does LL become Freddie’s in actuality - when he’s 25? Shouldn't he be doing something now in terms of learning to run a business / hospitality, management, basic accounts?

And if he never has children or dies young, does LL go to the awful cousins?

Yes, Camilla sounded like a pantomime villain.

Once for illegally selling foreign stock with a mate of his without bothering to get any of the necessary certification from the relevant control bodies, when he had recently left the merchant navy and his thyroid deficiency had been sorted out, and then again a few years later for non-payment of tax in Australia when he had left that country in a hurry and they wanted him back to imprison him. (I think landing her in it as well was why Mel had chucked him out.) On that occasion Phil sold some land, paid Kenton's debts and told him that was the lot, he would get no more from the farm.

There was another time he left this country owing money left right and centre, including to John Archer for a hog-roast and Shula for the christening cups for the twins that he'd had her collect and pay for; I think it was Shula who paid his debts that time.

Come to think of it, that experience might be why Shula has sympathy with David this time round.

And sorry, my post above was a reply to Errol on the previous page.

Eastie As far as I know no one has any recollection of Camilla, I could have missed her being referred to, but never actually on air at LL or anywhere.

Nigel used to refer to her. And I think she was present off-stage at his funeral. But I’ve certainly never heard her voiced before.

True about the cousins - there must have been a reason for their names being shoehorned in yesterday.

Eastie, ppeatfruit - I have no recollection of Camilla having had a voice before this week, but she's definitely been in the Pargetter background for at least as long as since Nigel and Lizzie got together, as far as I can remember

HelloYouTwo, I came here to say something similar, I don't know what the pre-requisites are for Estate Management but he should surely be doing something to plan for the furture, even if it's a bit less intense.

Poor Jill is so upset about 2 of her children arguing , feuding. People do give tax free gifts to family, before they die ( I know there's a condition about age ) ,he should take it. Jill's cottage must be worth at least over £5000 or so

What has he bought so far: Scruff gin, flashy car, retro record deck and vinyls, Jolene's photo shoot. It look like a deliberate plan to not repay David. I'd be cross, too.

Scruff gin was a business investment - they are reputedly making money back on that. The record deck was the same, for events at the bull (and this is a genuine market at the moment). The car was self indulgence when he owed money. Jolene's photoshoot - well I can understand it although I doubt it will show a return.

They were left short by David pulling out of an agreed sale and the bulk of the loan was to stop them going under after the floods. I thought there was about 16k outstanding (ie about 10k has been paid back)?

David was utterly ridiculous over Tony's beefburgers - anything which adds to the Bull's business makes it more likely for him to get a return.

Kenton is a bit of a dick but David's smug routine would drive me nuts as well. The pair of them are ridiculous at the moment.

mostly to shut up "I only have half-shares in a stately home to leave them will nobody think about the children!" Elizabeth, back in 2001

Neither Elizabeth nor Lily own a penny of LL and they never will. Its entailed to Freddy who has trustees until he is of age.

If anything happened to Freddy and the estate passed to a cousin or similar they would have no rights to it.

And why do you think the National Trust has so many stately homes lying around?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

Are you by any chance the now-late-lamented programme archivist?

They were left short by David pulling out of an agreed sale and the bulk of the loan was to stop them going under after the floods.

And because Kenton decided to spend the money before he'd got it on a luxury cruise.

David was utterly ridiculous over Tony's beefburgers - anything which adds to the Bull's business makes it more likely for him to get a return.

But from David's point of view, they could equally well add to the Bull's business using beef from Brookfield.

We don’t think that something is going to happen to Freddie and that LL will go to Camilla or the newly-named cousins, do we?

I recollect Shula and her first husband Mark “lending” Kenton £50,000 (late 80s early 90s?) so he could buy into Nelson Gabriel’s antique business - I presume that money “gone west” as i’ve never heard Shula ask for it back.

50 k 30 years ago was a hell of a lot of money!

Could there be a legal clause that disinherits people who have been to prison??

Is it possible that Alan has designs on Shula?

Vicars have been known to have extra-marital affairs occasionally, and he does seem to seek her out quite often these days...

Maybe Usha has run off with Gnasher, and Alan hasn't told anyone

Ghostontoast - thank you for that, I was mulling over a distant memory of Kenton and Nelson's Antiques but was missing the bit about Shula and Mark lending Kenton money for it.

I do hope they get Shula's storyline resolved quickly. I'm finding her increasingly bleating voice very tiresome: the less I hear it the better.

Also the SW's attempts to make her funny. Where has that come from? All that cackling about oddly positioned carrots and the organ business. Why not just write a new, funny, witty character in? God knows they could do with one.

I'm warming to Freddy since he came out of prison, He has a good and kind heart.

@WheresThatCatGoneNow ooh I LOVE that idea! I've known a few real life vicarage/parishioner scandals (including one in the general area where TA supposedly takes place) so I could totally be on board with that!

*vicar, not vicarage, although I expect there have been a few of those too.