Fast falls the eventide for Joe Grundy, the darkness deepens for Ed - will he be fenced in or is there still time for acts of pennants? Abide with us and discuss The Archers, thread #104!

[GabrielleNelson]

Thank you, @PseudoBadger, for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit and more recently when someone forgot they had promised to start the next thread, ahem.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from this thread, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

For newer listeners, lurkers or those who just have no idea what we're talking about, DadDadDad has created this useful thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have BOOP point for him! (See thread for explanation.)

Thanks also to LillianGish for the splendid thread title. As actor Edward Kelsey died last month, we have probably heard Joe Grundy for the last time, or will do very shortly. RIP Mr Kelsey; many thanks for creating a wonderfully vivid character, gnarly toenails and all.

As pointed out on the last thread, we're getting very close now to the 100th birthday of June Spencer, who plays Peggy Woolley. What an achievement! I hope the team manage to squeeze Peggy into that day's episode, come what may.

Yes and what was all that nonsense with Alan's parishioner story. Is Shula going to solve this person's problems and realise she has a calling. If not why mention it. I thought Alan was weird with Shula tonight.

I think Will's problems may be as simple as never having been taught how to do it

How much teaching do you need to learn how to sort a child's school things out? He must have had to learn how to organise his timetable for work purposes, it's essentially the same technique for remembering when PE is and when uniform needs to be ironed and ready for the week.

Alan was a bit needy! And I’m never happy when he and she are alone together. Shula just cannot be trusted ...

New to this thread but loooong term Archers listener.

One thing that has been bugging me. Why so much village focus on Natasha who has been missing for all of 3 weeks when Usha has simply VANISHED! I can't remember when her name was last mentioned, let alone when she featured in any story line. Have I missed something?

I'm glad Freddie hasn't vanished, though I often shout at the radio when he's on..

There was a lot of jollity in that episode. Was that for us, the listener, to give us a reprieve or was it supposed to show Freddie how the other half get on with their lives (even including Shula!), in contrast to all the seriousness and angst at LL.

I thought it was partly about Freddie being more relaxed away from LL, and benefitting from doing some honest labour in the stables. And Shula benefiting from having someone around, especially someone she was genuinely helping.

Much better than her art project, which had seemed to me rather self-indulgent but is turning into a penance.

I found Kenton's self-righteous defence of his paying David, "in his own time" nauseating. Just pay, ya feckless so and so.

I wonder if he'll share Jill's offer with Jolene and what her reaction will be. I see from the BBC website that's he's been bailed out financially on a number of occasions by his parents over the years.

Despite his helping out at LL and the correct attitude towards CMR, he's as contemptible as Will, though for different reasons.

Hello, WobblyLondoner! Do you mind if I ask what is the first story you remember hearing in TA, or if you remember the year (oh, all right, the decade, then) when you first started listening to it and taking it in?
I was coming on here to ask what on earth has happened to Usha, reminded of her by that scene between Shula and Alan, too - as you say, nary even a mention of her for a very long time. Perhaps Ruth was the last to say her name? I wonder if the actress was a victim of the SOC cull?
Also, definitely agree that Shula is being ushered towards being the second female vicar at St Stephen's. Peggy Wooley will turn in her grave if that happens

Usha is no longer the only lawyer in Borsetshire. Jim has stepped into her shoes!

Has Jill really thought about the implications of her offer? Giving the money to Kenton means that it is not available to be shared amongst all DC/DGC on her death. Does she think that nobody will notice the large payment?
Or maybe it will turn into a Public Information storyline, where the bank raise queries (?is it financial abuse) and it all comes out in the open.
Whilst I'm on the theme ... why has Jill offered to only Kenton? David is kicking up a fuss so he must be short. Shula is post-divorce. We all know LL's problems. Pip doubtless has baby-related needs. Josh's business could probably do with more working capital. Lily needs a fresh restart at University. Freddie can't find a job. etc etc. Why does Kenton get the special treatment?

Usha was in it when SOC ruled. It does seem odd that even Alan isn't mentioning her , maybe we are meant to infer that there's trouble in their marriage too (that'd please Sheila) !

Why does Kenton get the special treatment?

It’s interesting that we haven’t, until now, had Jill causing ructions by distributing largesse to her undeserving offspring. Are the SWs moving her into the trouble-making role formerly occupied by Peggy?

I’m equally puzzled and bored by the Kenton/David feud - it’s a fairly substantial amount for Kenton but a tiny amount for David. The enmity seems a little artificial.

Oh! Welcome Wobbly and any other new posters. (I’m always relieved when people state that they are either new to the thread or new to TA - otherwise I end up explaining things to people who’ve been here forever but namechanged. )

It would be good to hear Usha again. Though yes, odd and ominous that they didn’t even have Jim ambling along to the vicarage for a spot of informal advice. He’s an academic, he would definitely have sought expert advice where available - even just as a matter of courtesy.

’m equally puzzled and bored by the Kenton/David feud - it’s a fairly substantial amount for Kenton but a tiny amount for David. The enmity seems a little artificial.

Me too. It smacks of overly contrived and tedious family bust up in the making.

Why does Kenton get the special treatment?

He has the least resources I guess. David inherited the farm, Shula inherited property and bought the stables at "family prices". Elizabeth has use of LL although she has no rights to it or to sell parts of it.

Kenton has no access to large assets in the way that David and Shula do or even in they way Elizabeth is assumed to have.

Why does Kenton get the special treatment?

In this case, I don't think Jill is really thinking about the money at all, she's simply desperate for the breach in her sons' relationship to be healed (or at least, sticking plastered). She's not thinking about any other ramifications of her intended gift.

And, I don't really agree it's necessarily a 'tiny amount' for David - the farm may be a large business but it has large (and somewhat unpredictable costs) and not sure about the liquidity/profit margins.

Kenton has been taking the piss about repaying this loan for ages, buying a flashy car etc. I don't blame him for agreeing to Jolene's photo shoot, but from David's POV it was presumably the last straw.

How much is it?

it’s a fairly substantial amount for Kenton but a tiny amount for David.
It's the principle though, innit? Kenton stopped payments without warning. He has been avoiding David. He hasn't explained or negotiated; he's spent money on other things i.e. put David's concerns to the bottom of the list.
What has he bought so far: Scruff gin, flashy car, retro record deck and vinyls, Jolene's photo shoot. It look like a deliberate plan to not repay David. I'd be cross, too.

AskingQuestions posted this (most impressively!) on 19/5:

The money Jolene borrowed from the Archer family for The Bull was half of the £52,000 needed to pay for repairs to "historic damage" to the foundations, which had to be done before their insurance would pay out for the rest of the repairs after the flood damage. Lilian paid her half, but Kenton had "maxed out all our cards" on their holiday and the bank wouldn't help them, so Shula and Elizabeth lent Jolene/The Bull £4000 each and Jill another I think it was £2000, and the rest came from Brookfield -- not David, or David-and-Ruth, but the business. That was in November 2015.

Where are people getting the idea that it's a tiny amount for David?

He may have the large asset of the farm, but as Errol says that doesn't mean he has profitability or cashflow. They spent money on a new milking parlour, and I thought it was well known that dairy farmers (and agriculture more generally) are struggling financially. Or is that just farmers moaning? I may just not have been paying enough attention.

I agree that £16K won't be a tiny amount to David. Do we know if Kenton has done anything about paying anyone else back?

Interesting that the loan was officially to Jolene, yet David doesn't feel the need to pester her about it.

Interesting that the loan was officially to Jolene, yet David doesn't feel the need to pester her about it.

He (ie Brookfield farm) wouldn't have randomly lent Jolene the money if she'd not been married to his brother.

I wonder what her reaction will be when she learns of the falling out.

The David/Kenton feud is an interesting demonstration of what happens when family members lend each other money with the person doing the lending scrutinising every penny spent by the person in receipt of the loan. It makes me think of the lending money maxim that you you should never lend more than you can afford to give away. Of course the debt incurred here was as a result of the ludicrous Great North Move story which everyone knew was a complete nonsense from the start. It's perfectly possible that Jill could stump up the £25K or whatever it is and then knock that off Kenton's inheritance when she dies (she must be worth at least £100,000 - so £25K for each child is not an unreasonable expectation). Kenton would probably still moan about that. Re. Usha - perhaps she is being relegated to the role of silent wife in the style of Freda Fry, but we still need to hear she exists. Freda Fry was as present as any speaking character before she died.

I can’t understand why Jolene isn’r more bothered about paying the loan back. Very out of character, I’d say. But then, everything anyone does in the show is out of character at the moment.

I don't know about Jill having lots of money. She has no property except her cottage, which it was agreed would be split between Elizabeth and Shula on her death (mostly to shut up "I only have half-shares in a stately home to leave them will nobody think about the children!" Elizabeth, back in 2001) while Kenton got nothing because he had been expensively bailed out by the farm at least twice, once to keep him out of prison for the second time. (Keep him out for the second time, not that he had been to prison once.) She had a pension from Brookfield; when Phil was alive they got £18,000 a year, and that may have been halved when he died and now she is living there again and has no bills does she even still get it? And she has the rent for Glebe Cottage, which is let at mates' rates to Carol Tregorran.

I don't think there will be much money to be divided between her four children on her death.

Has Usha been heard on the Archers since the actress was involved in an odd court case in 2016? Souad Faress claimed to have been sexually assaulted at Waterloo station. CCTV showed her whipping round to look at a man that had just passed her, but the man accused had a bag in one hand, a newspaper in the other and didn't break his stride. It was very odd, because the CCTV should have exonerated the man immediately, but it went to court.

The Daily Mail etc then had a field day about "false accusations" although the CCTV clearly shows her reacting to something.

once to keep him out of prison for the second time.

I don't remember that - what did Kenton nearly get imprisoned for?

Wasn't Usha the only solicitor in Borchester during Freddy's trial?