Discuss The Archers - yes, this really is Thread 103. Are you going to vote for feet, stations of the cross, or a hologram? Will Natasha ever return? Will Russ ever leave?

[DadDadDad]

Exciting times - this thread will witness our 100,000th post in this long-running unbroken chain of threads.

New and old posters welcome. Don't spoil with any future plotlines.

And if you need a beginners' guide see here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3557323-For-Archers-fans-a-guide-to-acronyms-on-the-long-running-discussion-threads-and-any-other-meta-thread-questions-you-may-have

Carry on...

I'm not laying claim to Game of Farms. I think it was DoctorTwo who coined it.

Game of Farms was used over three years ago for one of the three titles www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/2570338-Game-of-Farms-The-4-Houses-of-Ambridge-Bleak-House-Boring-House-Sitcom-House-and-About-to-Breach-the-Terms-of-Their-Tenancy-House

thread titles! I think it was Pseudo’s creation along with the hive mind

Could we have Game of Drones instead?

Much more fun here than in the GOT chat
As you were.

I really felt for Jazzer - why on earth didn't Ed call him or text him as soon as he knew he couldn't make the shearing gig - Jazzer could have found someone else to help him or (like he said) done it himself.

I really felt for Jazzer too - it's moments like this that bring home what it must be like not to belong to one of the big Ambridge families. He's been kind of adopted by Jim (sort of an Archer by his son's marriage to one) and Fallon (also sort of an Archer by her mum's marriage to one), but really he's all on his own with no family, no property, no job and now not even any casual work (I know he still has the milk round, but still). Might he be the one to save Ed from himself by cottoning on to what Timotei is up to?

What milk round Lil’G? I thought that disappeared with Mike. Have I forgotten someone?

Oh dear, I don't watch GOT.

It's all Greek to me ....

One of the points mentioned on one of the other R4 programmes (Front Row or PM or some such) when Joe's actor was died that they had already recorded scenes with him which weren't due to be broadcast until later in the month. So it wasn't a special ominous pre-death episode, just the normal one they had already scripted anyway.

Re. accents. I have a slightly different accent from both of my siblings, and all of us are markedly different from both our parents. I think it's quite natural - we went to university in different places, our partners are from different countries, we live in different areas. None of this is true for Susan and Tracy, obviously, but I still think it's normal that people with slightly different life experiences will have different accents. Even in their attitudes: Susan is much more likely, IMO, to try to 'posh up' her accent as much as she can, whilst still wanting to be seen as down to earth and approachable; Tracy is more keen to assert her local identity and not look pretentious.

I think Mike eventually sold the milk-round to someone who was going to keep Jazzer on, but that seems to have got forgotten about. Or at least, we haven't heard Jim or Alistair complaining about Jazzer getting up at an ungodly hour and waking them up.

Will found out about George being taught how to poach the pheasants Will is employed to look after, and raised a hefty row about it (justified, in my opinion) so I'd be surprised if Clarrie didn't hear about it.

The thing is, Will is awful in all sorts of ways, but his family treat him so badly that it's hard not to feel that it isn't surprising if he's a git. They were vile to him when he started to work for George Barford. And things like Clarrie telling him shortly after Emma left him that Ed and Emma and George were the family now and he just had to accept it would be enough to make anyone bad-tempered, even if for instance they hadn't used "you'll upset your mum if you don't do it" to make him be Ed's best man when Ed married Emma -- that was just a horrible thing to do to anyone.

And yes, I feel sorry for Mia because Will shouted at her, but at the beginning of the episode she was being the worst sort of sulky teenager at him, refusing to speak to him -- and why? Because she'd blown up about doing too much work, so he'd spent a whole week trying to make sure she didn't have to and then she sulked about that! And he was trying to do something nice for her when he was suggesting the holiday, and she threw it back in his face and made it clear that she didn't want to spend any time with him.

He can't win, he can't break even, and because he has children to worry about he can't get out of the game by simply packing in his job, selling his house in The Green, washing his hands of the whole boiling of them and moving away to work somewhere else where the rest of his beastly family are not around to bully him.

Sorry; rant over, but I do feel sorry for anyone in the position Will has been in since he was about fifteen.

It’s funny George, I wasn’t sure about the milk round myself (hence its last minute addition in brackets), but I seem to remember a mention of getting up early or something. I think he’s still doing it waits for someone with authority to come along and confirm this.

For all that Will was purporting to try to do what Mia had been doing, he was being so useless at it that either she was constantly having to tell him what to do and where to find things, which cannot help but be seriously annoying, and (IME) is generally motivated by a hope that the competent person will just find it easier to take over. Also his general incompetence meant that Mia was aware that Poppy was going to have to go without stuff she would usually have had in her lunchbox. I'm not surprised Mia was less than thrilled.

the worst sort of sulky teenager at him, refusing to speak to him -- and why? Because she'd blown up about doing too much work, so he'd spent a whole week trying to make sure she didn't have to and then she sulked about that! And he was trying to do something nice for her when he was suggesting the holiday, and she threw it back in his face
I dispute that interpretation. In both cases - chores and the holiday - Will decided what was what, and that was it. No discussion, no negotiation, no thrashed-out compromise - just "I have decided". It is similar to what my friend was complaining about the other day: her DH had surprised her with some day out/holiday thing and she wasn't happy. He had picked something she didn't like but was expected to be grateful for. She said, "why couldn't he ask me what I wanted?"
It was stupid of Will to go from 'Mia shouldering all the wifework' to 'Mia not being allowed to lift a finger'. It shouldn't be one extreme or the other.

I'm sure that Jazzer and the milkround was mentioned the other day, in a "at least I've still got some money coming in" way.

So her response was to refuse to speak to him. Normal in a thirteen-year-old, I s'pose.

The silly thing is that Will was not in the least useless at keeping house when he was living on his own and getting on with all the stuff he now can't do, like buying food. I think he has been turned into a sexist cliché, because no woman is ever shown as not being able to look after a house or children in TA even if they are able like Helen and Pip to palm off their children on everyone else all the time, they can still make a shopping list and cook and make the bed and so on but men tend to be; Phil couldn't use the washing-machine, for instance, ho ho how we all laughed when he turned a wash pink or shrank Joill's favourite sweater or whatever it was.

Are you saying TASWAMA (The Archers Script Writers Are Misandrist Arseholes)?

“Because she'd blown up about doing too much work, so he'd spent a whole week trying to make sure she didn't have to and then she sulked about that! ”

Really? He didn’t know how to make Poppy’s lunch-kept on muttering about where stuff was then he didn’t cook any tea, just offered her a choice or take away. Then planned a holiday without any thought about wht she might like-has she ever shown any sign of being outdoorsy? And then went on about Poppy when she said she wanted to spend some time with her dad and Jake.

Mia was dead keen on football and martyred herself by giving it up, as I recall. So she probably is outdoorsy at least to some extent.

Will was not in the least useless at keeping house when he was living on his own and getting on with all the stuff he now can't do, like buying food.

But he was on his own then. The thing he seems to be struggling with is having to manage an entire household. If you're single and run out of milk and bread, you either go to the shop or do without. You can't let a child go without.

If you don't get round to doing your laundry, you can get by (especially in a job like gamekeeper, when you're likely to have mud over you anyway.) But if you send cildren off in unwashed clothes too often, it will get noticed.

He may well have remembered Poppy's book club or school trip eventually, but he's not doing it in time for her to be able to take part in them.

He doesn't seem capable of doing the multi-level project management that running a multi-person household needs. I'm sure he would be capable, but there's always been someone else (female) to pick it up, and he thinks it's beneath him, whatever he might say about Mia.

She is 13. She isn't being a martyr, she is trying to look after her sister because she realised the only adult in the house is unable to do this.

Because she'd blown up about doing too much work, so he'd spent a whole week trying to make sure she didn't have to and then she sulked about that!

I agree with quite a bit of what you say about Will, and also with PPs describing him as emotionally illiterate. He often didn't get good treatment as the "good one" who was boring. He isn't clever but he worked hard, learned a trade and got a decent job. The only man in that family who could say that until fairly recently.

Both Ed and WIll have been raised to be extremely misogynist in their assumptions/expectations around women.

However in the case of Mia, he wasn't doing something nice for her, he was doing a tiny bit of what is actually his job. Mia is not his housekeeper and the fact that Will regards this stuff as her job is part of the problem. Mia is better off with her Dad and Jake. Will has no grasp of how to manage a teenager, let alone one who has just lost her mother.

Askingquestions, I saw your post and had to come out of the shadows to agree with you.
I am a member of several Archers Facebook groups and there have been issues endless posts about people not being able to listen, sitting with tears rolling down my face etc whenever the Will/Mia storyline is aired.
The consensus is overwhelming that Will is, awful and Mia is some sort of Saint.
I am finding this storyline tedious. The Archers does not do young people very well at all, especially the one-dimensional Good Eggs like Johnny, Pheobe and now Mia.
I have not recovered from posting on FB when Pheobe clashed with Kate when she was trying to revise, so I dare not broach Mia for fear of being run out of town!
Does, anyone agree with me? Or am I destined to crawl back under my stone?

That Game of Farms thread is amazing! I’ve skipped through to p12 and haven’t seen me yet - and I’ve no idea who/what I was then, but it surprises me that several of you (at least 6) are still using the same names. I’d also forgotten about Matthew - had to read further to actually remember his role. Anyway, as you were ....

I agree Caffeine. Since Nic died Will's only thought has been to try and keep the family together in the belief that that is what Nic would have wanted (in reality he has no idea what she would have wanted because it was never discussed). Having Mia around has felt like having part of Nic there and Mia has tried to step into her mum's shoes (to encouragement and praise all round). He hasn't really got a clue about what is best for the kids - he is totally lost and has been scarcely able to take care of himself, let alone them. Mia is only 13 - Clarrie and Emma have sort of seen this, but not really intervened in any useful way. If Andrew is any sort of dad (and we have no reason to believe he is anything other) Mia should be living with him. Her brother has already made the move. Will is still too blinded by grief to see any of this - in losing Mia he probably feels like he is losing Nic all over again, or letting her down in some way. He genuinely wants to do the right thing, but hasn't got a clue what that is.

Will was not in the least useless at keeping house when he was living on his own and getting on with all the stuff he now can't do, like buying food

Will is a Grundy. Grundy men lose all ability to lift a finger around a house when anyone with XX chromosome set is within a mile.