Thread 98 - Discuss The Archers here! If you don’t give a ha’porthfor Pip come and add your two penn’orth - we do enjoy a bit of change counting (especially if it’s in old money)

[Bittermints]

Many thanks to @LilianGish for the title (again - she has real gift for this!). Further thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

(Change counting references arose specifically out of a nostalgic discussion on the previous thread, if anyone is intrigued.)

Natasha is beyond awful! Getting her involved with the business is a dreadful idea (especially for us who have to listen to more of her and Tom the slug)

Am a long time lurker who has returned JUST to say....

I hate Tom and Natasha. With a passion. And I need to share that feeling.

@ppeatfruit my very thoughts - Natasha is a cuckoo in the nest, she’ll roll out of his place in the family to get her scavenging mittens on what Pat ‘n’ Toe have worked so long& so hard for.

Isn't the problem more with Tom than Natasha? He's the one who is allowing her to hold sway over what is happening on the farm.

Tony suggests selling beef -> Tom thinks it's a bad idea.
Natasha thinks it's a good idea -> now Tom thinks it's a good idea.

I hate Natasha too. What a prat Tom is. This will be the supermarket buyer all over again, but writ large.

Alison Dowling's acting has been superb this week. Will Jill move over to LL to look after her? To be honest, I would find that a sore trial, but it might be the best thing for Elizabeth - for a while. Roll on Freddie's release!

Longer term, Lexi would make an excellent right-hand woman for Elizabeth, but that would be a bit complicated given both women's past involvement with Roy. I wonder if the story might go that way.

Last night's episode was trailed as Kenton putting his foot in it, but I thought he was making a reasonable attempt at it in his Kenton-ly manner. I mean, he wasn't really going to get anywhere was he either way? If he smiled and agreed with Elizabeth that it was just a bit of tiredness, that would have not addressed the siblings' genuine concerns. But the alternative of pushing her to open up seemed bound to result in her being defensive and angry. Maybe longer term it will help her to know that others are concerned and see through her brittle facade.

Are the three billy goats gruff siblings going to visit the troll Lizzie in turn...?

Does Jill know what's going on?

There is something odd going on with Lexi that I can’t put my finger on now that you’ve mentioned her Bitter. I don’t know... it all just seems odd.

I'm not a fan of surrogacy arrangements like this, Henwee (shouldn't you be in school, btw? ). It all seems very odd to me.

I like the Billy Goats Gruff references, DDD! VG. No, they are keeping it from Jill and Lily for the moment. Not for much longer, I hope.

Agree with DDD's about the trailer. Kenton did nothing that fitted the idea of putting his foot in it. Could have been better described by the BBC as "Elizabeth has a mammoth strop".

To be fair helping someone in lizzies situation is very difficult. I wonder if she will be hospitalised or be involved with the crisis team, as part of mental health awareness storyline.

It'll be interesting to see how well Freddie is when he's released. He may be suffering from depression, anger, possible PTSD. Will Elizabeth be strong enough to help him adjust back to normal life or will Freddie okay and has matured into a toughened yet more sensible, worldly-wise young man? Here's hoping.

Making "an important call" mid meeting.., why not just say "I'm going to ask Natasha's views on this" straight up. Loved Johnnie's sarcastic "three guesses". I'd like to hear much more of him as the future of TA, one of the few decent people around.

Tbh I'm struggling to understand the vitriol against Natasha. Hannah doesn't sound very pleasant but what has Natasha done that's so offensive? I'm fond of Pat and Tony and don't want to see them taken advantage of. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious? If so, happy to be corrected

Yes Yes to Johnny ending up as heir to Bridge Farm. Helen can carry on cheesemaking and Tom can bugger off to Wales with She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. Tom is so useless and completely convinced of his own brilliance. Pat is just desperate to find Tom a wife and won't offend SWMNBN because she's a potential DIL. Tony only tolerates SWMNBN because of pressure from Pat. Johnny is obviously fast becoming Tony's favourite, with good reason.

No idea what will happen at LL when Freddie gets out. He is unlikely to be able to give Elizabeth the support she needs. Elizabeth definitely won't be able to give him the support he needs. Lily is great but she's only 19 and can't be expected to prop them both up.

Yes Universal Tom is blinded by lust though. The problem with Natsha Comfortably is that she thinks she has bought her way into the family's confidence (with her huge gifts) so that she can control their business. Hopefully Helen 'll see through her.

Yes Mad Johnny sees through Nat. too: I like the way he takes the pee out of Tom's obedience to her every whim

I

'blinded by lust there's a rocky road to walk on!

Yes, that whole "important business call... oh, how did you guess! yes, it was Natasha" rigmarole was bizarre. Presumably, it was more so that the SW could get in the dramatic twist of Natasha agreeing with Tony, and Tony uttering the portentous last line before the dum-de-dums.

Re Billy goats gruff - given the siblings' parents' names, I was toying on how to work in Philly goats gruff or Jilly goats gruff.

I do hope the SWs are at least listening to David's actor, as Tim has suffered with Depression quite a bit.
I actually thought the clumsiness of it all quite realistic. But didn't any of them listen to Lily before she went back to University and asked them "to keep an eye on Elizabeth"?

Alas, Helen has never seen through anyone in her life. Naïveté (and lack of insight into their own flaws - remember Pat's relentless pursuit of the wrong path with her former CND pal?) seems to be a trait in that family. It would be marvellous if they circled wagons and saw off Natasha however.

Did anyone notice David's 'WhAATT?' in response to Kenton's report on Elizabeth? Does that man have any other rejoinder in his armoury?

And why isn't Jill, mother of the century, noticing that her daughter has completely dropped off the radar?

I bloody love Johnny. His 'here, grab my arm' when Peggy arrived to look at the cows gave my heart a little squeeze. And the way he gently teased her about drinking champagne. Growing up away from Ambridge does wonders for a young man!

All the storylines seem unrealistic at the moment. Particularly can’t believe Natasha getting in on the act so early in their relationship. And Jill ignoring Elizabeth at such a time? Ridiculous! Love Lizzie and the twins tho, and Jonny, and Lexi and Jazzer. Hope they all join the cricket team!

I agree with DadDadDad, Tom is more annoying than Natasha. He seems to have become incapable of thinking through any business issue on his own, he can only slavishly follow what she says.

If they do set up the online veg box business, they really have to make sure that Bridge Farm keeps absolute control over it. Otherwise when Tom and Natasha break up, it will be discovered that she's set it up so that she can take over full control and swan off with all the capital and profits. She will no doubt point out to Tom that he knew he was shacking up with Ms SuperBusinessWoman, so he can hardly complain when she acts in a businesslike manner to protect her own business interests.

Alas, Helen has never seen through anyone in her life.

She's thought she did, though. When Tom first started to look after John's pigs, after his brother died, lovely Hayley who'd been John's girlfriend before the Sharon thing, stepped to help him, despite being a city girl who'd never had to do anything she couldn't keep her stilettos on for. Helen discovered this when she came back from college and was absolutely vile about Hayley. She told Tom that Hayley was just scheming to get a share in the farm (goodness knows how) and forced her out. I can't believe that she'll just go along with Natasha muscling in via Tom in the way she's doing.

This will be the supermarket buyer all over again, but writ large.

Absolutely this. Tom falls embarrassingly hard for dominant woman with sexy business skills (and is shocked when she dumps him) . He really is terrible with relationships, isn't he?