Thread 98 - Discuss The Archers here! If you don’t give a ha’porthfor Pip come and add your two penn’orth - we do enjoy a bit of change counting (especially if it’s in old money)

[Bittermints]

Many thanks to @LilianGish for the title (again - she has real gift for this!). Further thanks due to @PseudoBadger for kicking off this long, long series of Archers threads and to @DadDadDad for being our resident statistician and keeping the ball rolling when Pseudo stepped back a bit.

All views on The Archers welcome here! New blood welcomed. We don't all agree on all points and most of us are posting tongue in cheek a lot of the time, so don't worry about revealing that you'd like to be Susan's best friend or other odd unusual views.

Spoilers: not on this thread, please. We don't wait for the omnibus to discuss the weeknight episodes, but we do try our best to avoid cross-contamination from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/radio_addicts/3439443-keep-it-to-yourself-the-archers-spoilers-thread-4, where spoilers are positively welcomed!

(Change counting references arose specifically out of a nostalgic discussion on the previous thread, if anyone is intrigued.)

Isn't Natasha the new Tasmin? Tasmin the supermarket buyer who turned Tom's head.
That was back in the Real Tom days ... I loved Real Tom.

Tom reminds me of one of those men in an Agatha Christie novel who stumbles from one amazing business opportunity to another, all of which never turn out quite the way he wants.

I think he likes the bridge farm brand more than the actual farm, and essentially wants to be a food supplier with a nice brand.

Whereas Johnny is more like Tony, in that he likes farming for the sake of it, although he's not averse to new ideas.

Brian has almost made me choke!

I love JennyDarling in righteous mode.

How many times has Jennifer used "this marriage will be over" ultimatum?

How many times has Jennifer used "this marriage will be over" ultimatum?
He could call her bluff. There isn't much money left for a divorce settlement and she probably would have to live off a state pension. If she's moaning now then she'd be moaning even more after divorce. Unless she goes to be Peggy's companion.
What can any of them say against him in court? It's all hearsay, isn't it? And Brian can easily counter it: "no, they misheard. I said I thought that Shady Bloke might be to blame but I wasn't able to track him down to ask him. I tried my best but we drew a blank there."

How many times has Jennifer used "this marriage will be over" ultimatum?

I think it's the first time it's been said in front of others, and so many of them. I also think she's not moaning, proposing perjury is pretty slimy.

It is indeed Echt, and it's not just asking her to do it but her/their children.

You could be disgusted and appalled by being asked to do it but embroiling the kids has got to be too much for anyone.
(Except Brian, clearly.

Brian's moral compass is pretty messed up (yeah, I know, old news). He had the audacity to say he was following his conscience when he's not hiding that it's all about the preservation of Brian Aldridge, and forget anyone else!

He may express it in a grown-up way but he reminds of teenagers from my teaching days: "you didn't see me hit him with a ruler, so you can't prove it - I'm not coming to your stupid detention."

Team Jennifer here. The Fall of the House of Aldridge seems inevitable.

If it's Brian's words against various members of his family, some of whom heard his confessions on different occasions, it would take an exceptionally gullible jury to believe that they all misheard him.

I'd quite like Brian to plead guilty but get off relatively lightly, if only because it would so annoy the likes of Kirsty and Emmur, who seem determined to be the modern equivalent of knitting women around the guillotine.

Can you call it Team Brian if it soley consists of Brian? Isn't it just Brian then?

Team Jennifer vs, erm, Brian. Or possibly Brian and his very expensive Lawyer, who probably won't mind things dragging on longer than expected.

He may express it in a grown-up way but he reminds of teenagers from my teaching days: "you didn't see me hit him with a ruler, so you can't prove it - I'm not coming to your stupid detention."

This. I immediately thought of students I teach, too.

He's as steeped in denial/blaming others/poor me as Alice/Lily/Elizabeth/Kate/Pip. Why is it always the women on TA? Oh, TASWAMA.

LucretiaBourgeois, I still hold that episode with Hayley against Helen 20 odd years later. I thought she behaved disgustingly then and have never sympathized with her since.
InkySplatter - isn't it Team Brian and Alice, or did I misunderstand last night's episode?
Gotta love Jennifer, I'm fairly sure this is the first time I've heard her tell Brian she would leave him if he didn't do as she asked, though I can't remember how the Siobhan situation was resolved at the time Jennifer found out - did she issue an ultimatum then? Anyhow, this must be the first time she's issued such an ultimatum "in public". Good for her!

Wouldn’t everyone at Bridge Farm be suspicious of Natasha’s attempts to move in on the business after Knob and the farm shop - and they. thought they knew him much better. They’ve only met Natasha a handful of times - are she and Tom even in a proper relationship? I can’t see an experienced farmer like Tony cow-towing to a drinks manufacturer over the future of his organic farm. More interestingly - and really just a side issue in last night’s episode - is the effect that selling the meat from the Anguses will have on Brookfield ( who are already a bit strapped, hence asking Kenton to repay his loan). Brian’s determination to perjure himself and Jenny’s threats are of minimum interest to me. I don’t find the handling of this story convincing at all. Home Farm was sold to save Spiritual Home, but it hasn’t been mentioned since and Kate has disappeared. I feel as though I’m sitting it out, waiting for the storyline to run its course - not particularly engaged because it feels so contrived, especially when compared with the slow disintegration of Lower Loxley and Elizabeth.

hmm...I thought she'd only ever used it about the splitting of the farm, when she thought her own children were going to lose out to Ruairi. Jenny will put up with any amount of Brian's rubbish if it's only her own dignity and peace of mind at stake, but this move of Brian's threatens Adam's stewardship - Brian's error won't die with him, so to speak.

Remember that scene when Adam's new eco-office arrived and Brian moved himself in first, and grabbed the best seat. Adam was scoffing at the old dinosaur and his 40+ years' of Farm Diaries.
Any chance that evidence in one of those will be Brian's downfall, that the DC don't have to speak against him because he'll do it himself. (Or Adam/JD find it and use it to 'blackmail' him to plead guilty.)

Team Brian theoretically includes Alice, although she seemed considerably less enthusiastic when she realised the possibility of having to go into the witness box and get done for perjury. I thought that was rather cleverly one.

Agh, cleverly done, not cleverly one.

If the whole Home Farm board vetoed Brian's stupidity what could happen?

Why weren't Bridge Farm selling the Angus's beef anyway?

I feel as though I’m sitting it out, waiting for the storyline to run its course - not particularly engaged because it feels so contrived
That too.
I would have thought that Brian and his legals could contrive a guilty-but-not defence: admit that he let Shady Bloke fill in the pond but insist that Brian had been told that it was builder's rubble or something equally anodyne and he didn't check. So, to the judging public, he refutes the polluting-charge but admits to negligence-due-to-naivety so he goes with a narrative of "legally, guilty; morally, not. I mean, we've all been there - taken in by scammers blah blah".

But why am I trying to make sense of a contrived plot?

In reality, isn't it unlikely that the prosecution would put Brian's family on the witness stand? They would hardly expect them to incriminate him (and it would amount to hearsay anyway). But it makes for a shocking moment realising Brian simply expects them to commit perjury if necessary.

LilG - my priorities on this thread are probably:

1. actually discuss TA
2. a bit of witty wordplay
3. stat chat

So, thanks for your last post, but special appreciation for "cow-tow".

They’ve only met Natasha a handful of times

And so have we - we have only every heard a few sentences from her. All we know is that she has the drive to set up a successful business, market her products well, that she is a grafter and that she tends to over do the gift/gush. None of which are awful in themselves. I think the problem is we get most of this through Tom's translation and he is a pillock.

Natasha is right about the box business too - fixed boxes going to an aging customer base are going out of business. I'm astonished they don't have an online ordering facility considering they already have a website for their products. Ditto selling their own organic beef.

Costs of set up on needn't be high in technology terms - there are lots of providers of shop platforms which you can buy into as a service. They would need to work out what their offerings would be, what staffing they need and their order cycles to meet demand but there is no shortage of farm shops doing this.

Separating it from the main business would shield Bridge Farm from risk if it runs into trouble.

I still hold that episode with Hayley against Helen 20 odd years later. I thought she behaved disgustingly then and have never sympathized with her since.

Helen was a shocked and bereaved 17 yr old when John died in 1997. I think you need to cut her some slack for that. Plus "she wants him for the land" is a recurring discussion in farming families (think of Phil'n'Jill attitude to Ruth)

Pat and Tony also thought the townie Hayley would never last with John.