*The Archers No.95* *Welcome to the 'real' world Ben and Ruarhi, the bad boys of on roading and welcome to the cereal cupboard little Rosie *!

[ppeatfruit]

Thanks to witchmountain for the last thread and to dadx3 for Godfathering them! Also to any other posters whose ideas I have borrowed for the title.

Bert Well he did know that they were DTD didn't he? Tom didn't lie about the bedsprings to Johnny.

Miscible Russ did say that she should stay to look after Lizzie though. He's not so bad, but it seems that Lily's eyes are opening slowly where he's concerned, and that she doesn't feel part of uni life because they live so far away from the campus. (which Lizzie had told her would happen) Typical, ignore the advice of the parent! It's a good story line.

If Lily does go back to Manchester, might Oliver step in to help out at Lower Loxley after enjoying being part of the Hunt Ball team? He’s been signposted as being at a loose end, although his new job behind the bar might kybosh that. A dream team of Lexi mentored by Oliver while Elizabeth pulls herself together, perhaps?

I’d like to see Lily dump the cocklodger, move to halls and enjoy her time at university.

Russ did say that she should stay to look after Lizzie though. He's not so bad,

Were we listening to the same episode? Russ said that but the wheedling; guilt-tripping tone of his voice and all the nauseating "my darling/ can't paint without my muse/ the flat is so empty" made it quite clear Lizzie can go die in a ditch if the alternative means inconvenience to Russ.

Yes and he'll think he's banked some credit for being 'understanding'. Next time she wants to do something he'll remind her of how understanding he's been. Vom.

ADarkandStormyKnight good point. Russ is an expert in manipulation.

Nah as I said before he's a selfish man child not an abuser.

It’s a spectrum though, isn’t it, there’s a very fine line between the two. He’s already abused his position.

Re Lee and does he know, if he's met Susan he will know, if he hasn't then he soon will once he does!

Russ is going to run out of money very soon, if he hasn't already.

I think he'll reveal his true nature then.

Yes I think we are now discussing whether he is a really bad abusive man or an okay abusive man.

Re Lee and does he know, if he's met Susan he will know, if he hasn't then he soon will once he does!

That's why I said it's a matter of "when" not "if" - it's a small community and eventually he'll encounter that information if he sticks around.

There are sooo many variables involved in scientific testing that i don't think it's possible to be completely objective.

I suspect we're going to have to respectfully disagree on the value of stats, but this comment has it back to front - statistics is all about developing methodology to recognise that there are so many variables and to objectively quantify their relative contribution to an effect. That is precisely why modern medicine has been successful - eg it's undeniable that cancer survival rates have improved, and that's from the powerful combination of developing new treatments and the use of statistics to quantify their effectiveness beyond subjective experience.

Yes, the real world is imperfect, which is what statistics seeks to deal with. I think stats gets a bad press because of the bad press - ie media has to simplify complex messages about uncertainty and conditional probability, to produce misleading headlines.

I initially read this as ‘distresses me daily’ 😁

MadameB, it was only reading about your confusion that made me see that it didn't say 'distresses', thought it was a bit of an extreme reaction!!

I think Russ is an abuser. He has already abused his position of trust as a teacher.

He has manipulated Lily into missing out on normal student experiences in order to be his "muse" and has manipulated Lizzie into paying for an expensive flat for him to indulge his artistic bent. That is abuse too.

Delurking to comment how refreshing it was to hear a positive family dynamic with Tom/Helen/Johnny. The contrast with the Dopeys and Pip is revealing.

And note that horrible Hannah was trying to drip poison in Johnny's ear about the Glasgow trip and Johnny being taken advantage of.

And despite that Johnny was still sensitive enough to other people's feelings to realise and warn Tom that Hannah might be uncomfortable with the Tom shagging Natasha scenario.

Hannah does distress me daily though so not an unreasonable conclusion to jump to. So does Pip (when she’s on). And Adam come to think about it, particularly when he sighs and says ‘i’ll just grab a sandwich later then’ meaning ‘i work so hard i am dying of fatigue and hunger’ (so every time he’s on then).

Hannah clutches her wooden spoon as if her life depended on it...

I’m confused about what they are trying to do with Hannah. Had they just gone for her being a pleasant but slightly emotionally damaged young woman who was full of bravado about a FWB relationship, but then had her realise she wanted more and eventually end up with Tom after the Natasha thing has burnt itself out, all well and good. But they have made her a nasty vindictive stirrer so I have no sympathy for her whatsoever and don’t think I’d be able to be pleased if she ended up with Tom (who is by no means a favourite character, but who I don’t think deserves someone as nasty as Hannah).

Hannah is thoroughly unpleasant. Shenanigans with Tom aside, she's trying to discredit Neil while sucking up to Justin which is exactly the sort of thing Knob would have done. Never mind Russ or Lee being the new Knob - my money's on Hannah (especially as no-one seems to have a bad word to say about her - even Susan was defending her actions). Tom will not end up with her, but I'm sure she will be throwing a spanner in the works with him and Natasha before long.

Emmur dislikes Hannah.

I think Hannah is one of those people (there are loads on social media) who pride themselves on being plain speaking and honest and up front. When the reality is that they are just nasty and unkind and insensitive

I think stats gets a bad press because of the bad press add to that bad teaching (journalists produce misleading headlines because they don't understand the stats they are simplifying; public understanding of probability leads people into all sorts of irrational decisions, and don't let's even start on miscarriages of justice), and all the people that wish the stats were saying something different - eg this year's result is lower than last year's but well within the overall upward trend "oh look - the stats are going down, and that's shows what we did is working".

I've said it before but I genuinely don't think the SW know that Hannah is horrible. I think they are using her as a source of conflict with Emma and Neil. They've totally misjudged how unreasonable she was coming across and now we've all lost sympathy for her. I think they meant her to be a feisty, ladette style of woman who was going to end up having to show a softer side when she (inevitably) fell in love. I reckon they'll want Tom to get hitched/have kids so that there are more Archers to write about. He's 37 going on 13 so they probably want to tackle that fairly soon. Hannah is here for the long haul imo. Unless we write a strongly worded letter maybe? Are we influential enough do you think?

Tony thought that Tom showed "assurance and maturity". And Johnny said "wow!" when Helen told him this.

Tom is 37! Surely "showed maturity" is an odd compliment for a man who is 37, almost 38. And Johnny thought that "showed maturity" was high praise for Tom, judging by his "wow!"

Also, Brenda announced her engagement in March 2014. Is she still engaged? Did I miss something? Did she have a wedding so low key that Roy didn't notice?