The Archers #93: The Flower and Produce show - who's going to get their just desserts. Freddie? Ellis? Russ? Pass judgement here.

[DadDadDad]

No, that's not a jokey exaggeration, this is really the 93rd thread in a series started by PseudoBadger five years ago! In fact, post number 90,000 in the "official" count will be made on this thread.

Lovers of The Archers welcome (along with the rest of us who have a more complicated relationship with the "TA" ).

One rule we try to stick to: No mentioning of future episode plotlines published in the Radio Times etc. However, once an episode has aired, say what you like!

What is going to happen to Freddie? And are we ever going to hear from Lily again?
I also am wondering what it will take for Kenton to apologise to Fallon...

In theory, a custodial sentence is right. In practice, custodial sentences rarely seem to rehabilitate. The whole purpose of YOIs was to keep young offenders away from the adult prison population, to avoid them being turned into "hardened criminals", but YOIs are themselves toxic. So I suppose what I'm feeling is not so much "this isn't right for Freddie" but "this isn't right for anyone".

That is why I said 2000 hours which is 50 weeks @ 40hrs / week so basically a year of unpaid work with those far less fortunate than himself.

300 hours is the maximum sentence so the judge couldn't give him 2000hrs even if she wanted to.

Is there any actual money anywhere?

Its generated a decent lifestyle for Nigel, Elizabeth and the twins, including school fees and other luxuries. If they can get past the licensing issue I don't see what that shouldn't continue.

I agree Freddie will never run the place but he might grow into someone who contributes in the manner of Nigel and potentially focus on horse/stables when Shula retires. He would need his own "Elizabeth" when she wants to slow down. That could be Lily or a future partner or just a business manager.

Is there any actual money anywhere? The Ambridge money fairy of course.

I imagine bits of the LoLo estate could be sold off a la Bridge Farm.

Thanks for the info about bail Gersemi I don't what I was thinking. Maybe that he was on a promise

The whole thing is a waste of public money, you can sell people vodka which can kill more easily than these 'drugs' some of which are actually medically useful, the hypocrisy is ridiculous.

Oh and I don't drink except for the odd glass of good red wine.

I remember Olivia Channon. And Darius Guppy, although that wasn't drugs but fraud of some sort.

I foresee a life of crime for Freddie. The YOI will be the start of his slipper slope.

TeenTimesTwo the 🔮 agrees with you that Peggy will buy Home Farm.

Some YOIs are better than others. But there aren't many of them which means often families have to travel a long way for visits - and losing family ties has a bad effect on those inside. And of course it's much harder for impoverished families to keep making expensive trips than those who live in stately homes.

First nights in any custodial setting are the worst. More suicides and self-harm happen then than at other times. And the very worst day to arrive is going into the weekend because fewer staff are on duty and everyone is locked up longer.

Trying to think where Freddie would end up. Werrington too far from
Borsetshire. Brinsford? Used to be very grim but better now.

could he not have a curfew after the community order- not sure howit wors but surely being under house arrest for the hours of darkness for several months would be a good punishment
Agree that YOI awful for anyone, and more likely to do harm than good in Freddies case- the potential benefits are meaningless for him

It’s annoying me that Elizabeth didn’t just go and stay with Shula the night before Freddie went to court. Far less risky.

Those of you saying Freddie’s got his future sewn up because of LL, lots of family businesses have been run into the ground through fecklessness. Freddie’s never shown the slightest interest in the business. His mother (and father when he was alive) works hard to keep it all going. He just hasn’t got what is needed. Not to say he can’t learn but he’d need a big shake up for that to happen. Maybe this is it, maybe not though!

Agreed, Biking. I think the issue is that Freddie carries a burden of expectation and doesn't have much appetite for it. Drugs was a lot more exciting and much less drudgery.

Re the reference to the Olivia Channon death. The Times had this piece about Rosie Johnson a while ago. The Judge at her trial said There is, perhaps, a notion in our society that it is acceptable for the rich and privileged to dabble in hard drugs. It is not.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drugs-are-rife-says-woman-jailed-over-death-of-top-torys-daughter-qs066rhqs

I don't think they'll name a real YOI or even a pretend one - they didn't for Helen and I assume they didn't for Susan either.

I think he was always going to get a prison sentence.

On Nolethandu I thought she originally made contact with Ellis in order to buy unspecified pills of a kind she'd clearly had before. Before her arrival Ellis just looked down on Freddie, she actually brought them together and Ellis then realised that Freddie could sell for him and might well have other contacts and ideas, as indeed he did. While if the overdose came to light or was revealed it would look bad for Freddie, it wasn't really just down to his stupid actions.

As for posh kids, even kids from middle class or even some working class backgrounds get lots of support from their parents and probably have a better chance of coming through it all than a lot of other prisoners. I know a few people whose kids faced prison and while they were terrified for them, they would have been able to visit etc. I worry a bit for north London kids and young people that London prisons are being closed - however much better the new building somewhere else is, it will be in the middle of nowhere and harder for the most supportive relatives than visiting Holloway or Pentonville or wherever. And if you live outside London it's often easier to come in and use public transport than it is to get somewhere with no proper transport network.

I agree with your analysis re Nolli elkiedee. It doesn't excuse Freddie's dealing, but the fact is it was Nolli who sucked Freddie in not the other way round.

In that respect it's probably just as well Freddie is not going to SA. The most annoying aspect of all this is how it allowed Russ to triumph. If the twins hadn't been keeping tit for tat secrets for one another the relationship would have been out in the open much sooner. If Elizabeth hadn't been relying on Russ for a reference for Freddie she might have been more inclined to put her foot down, kick up a fuss and report him. Quite a clever plot really as the two strands are so tied up in one another. I'm worrying for Lily now that if (as seems inevitable) her relationship falls apart with Russ she'll be on a huge guilt trip over keeping quiet about Freddie for so long. Maybe that's what will save LL - they'll both come home/come to their senses and start working with Elizabeth to make the business a massive success.

I remember about Olivia Channon’s drug dealer as there was an article in Good Housekeeping magazine(!) by her mother - how she had a picnic on the grass outside the prison when she visited (obviously a nice rural open prison and not Holloway).

I don’t know why I put the word “nice” in there, I guess an open prison would me more salubrious then an old Victorian gaol, but not “nice”.

Just noticed a tweet from Keri Davies in response to a question about why Brine and JD don't remortgage. He says it's because Brine doesn't want to saddle the next generation with the debt. I still don't understand the logic of it: either they get £1 million (or whatever it is) wiped off their inheritance now, or it gets taken out of the estate later. They're no worse off either way, unless there's some sort of tax dodge involved.

Surely they're too old to get a mortgage. They'd get equity release that's all.

Surely they're too old to get a mortgage. They'd get equity release that's all

No that isn't how it would work. The funding would be business funding-not a mortgage to buy a house.

I don't know who actually owns Home Farm and what the business operation which runs it is. Logically the house and land might be in Brian and Jenny's name but the trading business might be a partnership or a limited company.

Therefore any borrowing would be by the partnership or company with the landowner granting security over the land for that borrowing.

Brian and Jenny's age is irrelevant as the debt isn't theirs. The debt is the trading entity's problem, but secured on the land.

He says it's because Brine doesn't want to saddle the next generation with the debt. I still don't understand the logic of it: either they get £1 million (or whatever it is) wiped off their inheritance now, or it gets taken out of the estate later. They're no worse off either way, unless there's some sort of tax dodge involved

That explanation makes no sense. There is no reason why an operation like Home Farm should not carry debt through to the next generation.

So far as tax, if everything is owned personally by Brian and Jenny then on the second death a large loan might not be a bad thing to set off against the value of the house. The farm will get agricultural property relief on the land but HMRC might argue the house is too grand to have full relief (ie it's not a farmhouse). A large loan over it reduces the inherited value.

Does anyone else think that Clarrie’s version of Nic’s pie will kindly be the only entry in that category, and so will win first place?