The Archers #93: The Flower and Produce show - who's going to get their just desserts. Freddie? Ellis? Russ? Pass judgement here.

[DadDadDad]

No, that's not a jokey exaggeration, this is really the 93rd thread in a series started by PseudoBadger five years ago! In fact, post number 90,000 in the "official" count will be made on this thread.

Lovers of The Archers welcome (along with the rest of us who have a more complicated relationship with the "TA" ).

One rule we try to stick to: No mentioning of future episode plotlines published in the Radio Times etc. However, once an episode has aired, say what you like!

What is going to happen to Freddie? And are we ever going to hear from Lily again?
I also am wondering what it will take for Kenton to apologise to Fallon...

Freddie is a mummy’s boy

I'm curious as to who people think should go to YOIs if not repeat drug dealers like Freddie (because that is what he is)?

Being from a privileged background should not entitle people to softer sentences, although it frequently does due to the better representation and ability to present a good family front for the reports.

Freddie dealt drugs repeatedly and it nearly resulted in his cousin's death. Even after that he continued. If Dwayne from the single parent family had committed the same crimes would people be so keen to see him excused?

Definitely not able to defend himself much in a physical fight. This is my impression too - this is Nigel’s son. I’m thinking Tim nice but dim. Afraid of Ellis and his threats, not able to stand up for himself, always played second fiddle to his super-confident sister (I’d have no worries about her).

Agree CH8. And “Dwayne” could be offered help such as access to education and help to get a job. Freddie has already got all that in place.

He certainly has potential as a novelty but I still think he’s likely to have a bit of a rough start.

Having been bullied before doesn’t bode well. It’s confidence that stops people from becoming targets as much as physical stature.

I don’t think YOI institutions are a useful place to put any young people in their current state, but I agree that Freddie doesn’t deserve to be treated differently becsue of his background.

I'm curious as to who people think should go to YOIs if not repeat drug dealers like Freddie (because that is what he is)? That’s true - and maybe a short, sharp shock will do the trick. Personally I think a long stint of community service would have done Freddie more good. Instead of wafting off around the world because he knows he’s going to inherit anyway and has no incentive to make any effort he could have grafted for free at something useful giving something back to society, helping people less fortunate and maybe finally understood that there’s some satisfaction to be gained from doing something worthwhile. I think YOI is a better option for people whose home circumstances and circle of influence outside is worse than that inside - ie it might be their best chance.

I know we’re supposed to think that Bert - but I don’t recall much reference to riding as a thing he does often.

and maybe a short, sharp shock will do the trick

If the near death of his cousin was not sufficient a short, sharp shock then I think picking up litter for 3-4 days a week whilst going back to his feather bed every night is unlikely to do it. I do not see how the judge could give a non custodial sentence to a repeat drug dealer.

I think YOI is a better option for people whose home circumstances and circle of influence outside is worse than that inside

The problem with that is the consequence would be poor young people going to prison, rich young people doing the litter picking and back to bed every night. That would be invidious.

Some years ago I volunteered on an education scheme which went into YOIs.

The few "posh" kids in there were not the automatic victims. They had the family visiting as frequently as possible and willing to complain if there were issues, lots of external support, somewhere safe to go when they left. The most vulnerable were the poorly educated with no advocacy from outside and little external support.

Being from a privileged background should not entitle people to softer sentences I agree. I’m talking about Freddie in particular because we know him so well. He lost his father at a young age, struggled at school - a struggle that was emphasised by constant comparison to his perfect (not any more!) twin sister and has been a victim of bullying. I don’t accept he was a bad influence on Nolli - that’s what Kate wishes to believe. In fact it was the other way round. I think he’s already quite fragile and this sentence may well push him over the edge.

What do people think about him turning in Ellis and admitting to habitual dealing? Should he just have stayed quiet and taken a rap on the knuckles for a one off offence? I can’t see how this has helped him at all - I can see he doesn’t want to risk going through it all again if the other offences eventually come to light, but in terms of the judge looking favourably on this course of action I can’t see he did himself any good at all.

What do people think about him turning in Ellis and admitting to habitual dealing?

Well let's be honest. That wasn't because of a sense of guilt and wanting to come clean/pay back. It was the option which in the end he felt was in his own best interests.

Multiple offences (I'm assuming they don't know his cousin nearly died) when there is supposed to be a crack down. 6 months (assuming good behaviour) doesn't seem outrageous.

I like Freddie as a character but the recurring theme of "Freddie is such a nice boy its not fair on the poor darling" spouted by the family irritates the hell out of me. Those same people would want the book thrown at a commoner Freddie who gave their own kids drugs.

I don’t accept he was a bad influence on Nolli - that’s what Kate wishes to believe.

Initially when gathering mushrooms I'd say it was 50/50. It was Freddie who had the idea to sell them and started selling them at college. Nolli tried to stop him once it was clear he was doing it regularly.
If Freddie hadn't been dealing on the night of the party he wouldn't have had the drugs which nearly killed Nolli when she was depressed and vulnerable.

“I’m thinking Tim nice but dim”

Actually, he isn’t very nice. He’s a drug dealer -not an occasional one, he’s been doing it for years. He nearly caused the death of his cousin and appeared to show no remorse. He threatened his sister with revealing her relationship with Russ if she told anyone about the drugs.......

Those same people would want the book thrown at a commoner Freddie who gave their own kids drugs. Absolutely true - or even at posh Freddie who gave their kids drugs (in fact perhaps even more so). I think you are completely right Caffeine - and this would absolutely be be the view of any unbiased person i.e. a judge. My problem is that I have become very caught up with the drama (so much so that I actually listened live last night to hear the sentencing) and was putting myself in Elizabeth's shoes as her son was taken off who knows where to face who knows what. Great writing - because what I am feeling relies on what I know of the characters beyond what was actually happening on air.

I thought the judge's assessment of Freddie was spot on.

He deserves the sentence he's been given.

Does anyone else remember the Olivia Channon case (daughter of a Tory MP, student at Oxford)? Her best friend went to prison for supplying her with the heroin that killed her.

Freddie's situation not as bad as that, but justice needs to be meted out equally to all who break the law regardless of their background.

I was thinking of that case - she lived in the house that back on to mine in Oxford.

Interesting interview with her friend here

@Fink You're quite right of course. Just think we as a society emphasise retribution above rehabilitation (and deterrence doesn't work if you think you'll never be caught).

One hopes he will have a stately home to come back to.... Ooh! Do you think maybe the editor has decided to divest all the Archers of all their property? Home Farm first, possibly LL, David and Tony both losing their way business-wise (over diversification, milking parlour obsession). And pubs are closing at quite a rate. It would be a complete overhaul of the social order. Totally unrealistic of course, but does that matter in today's radio soap?

I'm in at least 2 minds.

I think it is right he was sentenced because he was drug dealing.

On the other hand, there is a risk that him going to a YOI for 6 months will send this easily lead foolish young man further down the wrong path rather than setting him on a more positive route.

He doesn't need the 'benefits' of a YOI. e.g. need English & maths tuition. He doesn't need state funded counselling, he doesn't (really) need to be extracted from a bad home life and contacts.

I think that wider society would have been better served by making him do 2000 hours of community service, e.g. in a soup kitchen / homeless hostel etc.

re Home Farm.

I think Peggy will buy it.

It is interesting that although he was a drug dealer he didn't seem to be a drug taker and certainly not an addict. I wonder how unusual this is among small time dealers like Freddie.

I think that wider society would have been better served by making him do 2000 hours of community service, e.g. in a soup kitchen / homeless hostel etc.

IANAL but I believe the max community service is 300 hrs. since it is a substitute to prison for lesser offences

Honestly - 300 hrs of litter picking whilst being cosseted at home is not something which would seem like major punishment to someone like Freddie. Especially when all his family are telling him how hard done by he is.

He has all the advantages and a job for life waiting for him when he comes out.

I feel sorry for Elizabeth mostly. I feel sorry for the situation Freddie has got himself into but its entirely his decisions and the sentence does not seem harsh considering the severity of the crimes and the problems we have with this in society.

Lillian he was taking, the "smart drugs" that got him through his exams for one!

I think Freddie deserves everything he go and more, but I'm a bit unsure about the job for life thing. What's he going to do? Presumably Lizzie's still going to run the business and if must cost a fortune to keep Lower Loxley going. Is there any actual money anywhere?

300hrs is the maximum?

That is why I said 2000 hours which is 50 weeks @ 40hrs / week so basically a year of unpaid work with those far less fortunate than himself.

I absolutely agree that a fine would have been too lenient.