The Archers: Will Lillian decide what MATTers JUST IN time? Discussion #82

[DadDadDad]

Discuss The Archers here, the long-running thread series started by PseudoBadger. Maybe my puns will tempt her back to take the reigns?

I think Sleeping Beauty references can wait until the next thread which will probably cover much of December.

Lurkers de-lurk! New to The Archers? you're welcome here; the friendly crowd will answer your questions.

And Justin didn't make it clear to Lil that it was re the attempted murder that he was being called in by the police, not the race horse shenanigans.

I thought Lilian was supposed to benefit but she never mentions it

This mysterious trust of which the other trustee is a solicitor; who has just acted in the sale of trust property.There is so much wrong with this story line. And by "wrong" I mean not researched and implausible.

Not to the extent that she might be now Anti (I don't think?). Didn't she have some stake in the Dower House Trust? Even if not, she was still collecting rent from it and at least able to live there?

If Matt's scarpered with all the cash again, and her bank balance discovered to have been recently swollen through ill-gotten gains, who knows where she might end up.

Didn't she have some stake in the Dower House Trust?

I think she was a beneficiary of the trust.

Even if not, she was still collecting rent from it and at least able to live there?

The trustees can permit a beneficiary to live in property owned a trust. Leases should have been granted by the trustees but the trustees can appoint trust income out to beneficiary

The trustees of a trust should not pay trust assets out to themselves. Why Lilian is not speaking to the solicitor trustee is incredible.

She moved in with Jenny so she could rent the house out because she needed the cash (never explained what happened to amside)

She is in a worse position because she doesn't have the house

Maybe there will be fraud around the sale so Justin doesn't legally own it

So Lillian, as a beneficiary of the Trust, will receive some of the proceeds of the sale (we don't know how much). And in the meantime she's also received a lump sum repayment from Matt. I don't remember her ever reporting his disappearance (with her assets) to the police so she'll find that difficult to explain. From the police's point of you she must look suspiciously involved in his scam.

I thought she moved out because she couldn't face rattling around in "that big old place" on her own?

Whatever. Things look bleak for her right now.

I have vague memories of Harrison being called round and looking at Lilian’s bare walls. But l can’t recall when he was called, or by whom.

So Lillian, as a beneficiary of the Trust, will receive some of the proceeds of the sale (we don't know how much)

Depends on the type of trust. If a bare trust , yes, if a discretionary trust , possibly not- depends on the trust purposes.

The trust explained by the FT

www.ft.com/content/88bc2f52-8ca5-11e7-a352-e46f43c5825d

The gin-quaffing pair have made their love nest in the Dower House, although Justin threw a wobbly when he found out that the property was actually owned by Lillian’s ex, the village bad’un Matt Crawford. Fleeing his creditors, Matt placed the property in trust. He and his dubious-sounding solicitor are the trustees, although Lillian is the sole beneficiary.

At Lillian’s behest, Matt has now agreed to sell the Dower House to Justin (at market value, plus 10 per cent). However, long before Lillian’s champagne soirée at Grey Gables with Matt, professional listeners sensed an unhappy ending.

As for the property trust, Ben Rowe, Archers’ fan and employed barrister in the commercial litigation department at Stewarts Law, says it is quite common for a settlor to be a trustee of a trust — so long as they are not also the sole beneficiary, as then the trust would serve no purpose

“In many situations, where there is a bare trust (which this appears to be) the beneficiary, Lillian, can invoke the 1841 case of Saunders v Vautier and demand that the trustees move the property directly into their name, and terminate the trust,” he says.

I have vague memories of Harrison being called round and looking at Lilian’s bare walls. But l can’t recall when he was called, or by whom.

Lillian called him initially because she thought she'd been burgled. When she discovered what had really happened she didn't pursue it.

Oh goodness, yes - I seem to recall a rather nice scene with Lilian and Harrison at the house. (In my memory it was positively Jamesian - heavy with unspoken realisation and shimmering intergenerational, cross-class tact. Re-writing the script is what enables me to carry on listening through the rubbish periods. I'm sure I'd be sadly disappointed if I re-heard the actual episode.)

I wonder if this back story will be brought to the fore when poor Lilian is re-interviewed.

What had happened Vango? I don't remember that?!

I've listened for years and now listen to the podcast before bed - but sometimes I fall asleep

That was the time Matt ran off robin. Lillian thought she'd been burgled.....until she found a note.

From the ever-trusty Lowfield, 15 January 2015:

Lilian gets back to the Dower House to find it appears to have been burgled. Harrison turns up at the Dower House to investigate. Paintings are missing and the safes open. The paintings are worth several thousand each. There is no sign of Matt. And no sign of forced entry. And then Harrison finds a note - "Sorry Pussycat". Lilian claims there must be a simple explanation and asks him to keep it quiet.

Ohhhh yes that's right.

Thanks, I have a shit memory!

What's happened to Ruby? She's strangely quiet at the moment.

Justin is being so nasty to Lilian I can't imagine he'll have any tender feelings for the poor dog.

Timetoget If you don't know what Simon Williams looks like, if you've got Sky TV have a look at number 123 in the late afternoon , Upstairs Downstairs is being repeated, again, he's just the most gorgeous bloke! (he was!).

I reckon the £50k Matt gave Lillian is dodgy and she'll be made to give it back

Justin is showing how horrible he really is.
I was confused by the DI - I was sure it was the same actress who sounded Brummie the other day? Or did they swap accents to make us think there was more staff at the police station? Was the Brummie one the silent partner in Adam's interview?

Justin is showing how horrible he really is.

I thought he did that when he employed Rob after the trial and its revelations. Or when he deceived Miranda, repeatedly. It's no surprise to me!

I’m finding this whole hit and run storyline very convoluted and loads of things over the last 6 months seem like an obvious build up to this now! The twins’ driving lessons, Freddie’s (very occasional) recreational drug use, the speed watch campaign, Josh’s new car... surely it’s one of the youngsters? My thoughts exactly. Likewise the convoluted Trust business - an obvious build up to Lillian being evicted from her home. Did Justin ever persuade her to merge her business with his? Surely the wedding won’t go ahead? I do hope not - I won’t be able to listen to the simpering and slurping on both sides if it does. Happy to see the back of Matt (in his new form) and I’d be happy to see the back of Justin too.

Justin was so horrible to Lillian I don't think SHE should forgive HIM.

She should call it off.

But then he will say it shows she was in love with Matt all along.

Oh dear.

I don't think Justin is horrible, I think he's just a businessman. Not a very good one actually either as Rob wasn't exactly a success.

Also, after Lilian rushing after Matt like that I don't blame him for being angry.

shows she was in love with Matt all along

Strange how she could have an affair with his half brother if she was soooo much in luuurve!

Justin is a pragmatist (hence employing Rob.) Doesn't let emotion cloud his judgement. I suppose.