Surprise surprise - Kirsty has a Mini Sausage Roll in the oven! Discuss the Archers here

[PseudoBadger]

Happy New Year to you all.

Lily and Freddie both look like I imagined.

Helen has never been brilliant at empathy - so staying in role. And also she probably does want to help....

I though she was doing well during the meal, giving Kirsty opportunities to share if she wanted to - but as she didn't respond to them it was abundantly clear she didn't want to so anyone with a shred of empathy would surely have respected that.

Exactly, errol

Kirsty: I can't believe you sat there, saying nothing, when you knew all along that I was pregnant. How long had you known? Why is it always about you Helen? Why couldn't you have thought about me and what I'm going through for a change? What kind of a friend are you? Isn't it my turn for a bit of support?

Etc etc.

The point is, that whether she wants to or not, Helen KNOWS, and she had to let Kirsty know she knows. Otherwise Kirsty would have felt like a fool or Helen would have to lie.

I think the correct thing to do when someone tells you something and swears you to secrecy, and then you tell someone. Is for the person sworn to secrecy to tell the person - not the person they told it to

Surely much more humiliating for K to find out from Tom that Helen knows/has known for a while?

Not sure it is really tbh

I'm not a big fan of Kirsty as many are, but why you would consider Helen a best friend is beyond me

And the fact she manages to have two best friends who seem totally unconcerned that she doesn't give anything back

My feeling is that, irrespective of what Tom told her, Helen should have deduced from the fact that Kirsty didn't mention the pregnancy that she didn't want to talk about it. It's not a difficult leap of logic.

I'm getting the feeling that I'm alone in this view but I honestly think Helen was trying to do the right thing.

Hi think Kirsty's response to H was so unlike her. And the I just want to be left alone with my baby, really. As someone said upthread, you did come back to live in Ambridge. She isn't that daft, nor are we, come on SWs let's get more believable, I know I know it's a soap.
Goes to boil head.

Oh yes, helen was trying to do the right thing - but then, so was Tom.

Just accidentally listening to the lunchtime H 'Id never pressure you' K 'you wouldnt mean to but...'

If someone has had opportunity to tell you something and hasn't, even if you cant imagine why and mean well, surely you should accept they have their reasons and butt out.

Roy is a good friend, some wise words from him. Although they might possibly have the effect of making K flee the area.

I think Helen wanted Kirsty to know that she thinks Tom has been a bloody idiot.

It's tricky because she does know and she would be rubbish at feigning surprise when Kirsty tells her. On the other hand, I'm not surprised K is angry but then she really can't swear Tom to secrecy - it's his baby too. Got splinters in my bum from this one!

Agree that she can't expect Tom not to talk to someone close about such a big thing. But he should be telling her that.

Rather than jumping in with marriage proposals he should be having conversations about how to announce it and co parent etc etc

Right now it sounds to me like Kirsty doesn't think Tom has any right to do anything. So what's happened exactly? The father of the baby has told his sister. Take it up with him Kirsty. Stop telling him you don't want to talk/now's not the time etc.

I didn't realise that I really like Kirsty until I started defending her! There is no way I would want to talk to Tom, every time she does he says something utterly ridiculous. I have also realised that I find Tom a bit ... creepy. I need to get out more.

Interestingly, I think Kirsty's another one who likes to be in total control. She wanted the big wedding and the executive new-build when in hindsight it was obvious that Tom's enthusiasm was somewhat lacking.

Luckily her conviction that she's always right came in handy for Helen when no-one else could see what was unfolding.

I can understand why she's feeling whatever it is that she's feeling about the pregnancy and the future but don't think Helen/Pat should bear the brunt of her ire.

But I don't think she did want the big white wedding and the executive house. It was Tom bulldozing along what he thought she would want

Agree Errol that Kirsty would have told Helen if she'd wanted too. Also, who would want to break news that you were trying to keep quiet in public and at the place you work?

That was with Brenda Anti, was it not?

Tom had a lot going on in the run-up to the non-wedding. It started with the awful 'Will' announcement, then Tony bought a herd of cows without consulting anyone (to prove a point to Peggy), one of the cows died (causing problems for the pig business) and everything was fraught!

Brenda and Tom had planned to build something at BF, not buy an 'executive home'.

It was Tom bulldozing along what he thought she would want

I was responding to this Errol. Tom was 'bulldozing' Brenda, particularly about building the house on the farm.

He wasn't the same with Kirsty (who was overjoyed when they reserved the plot for their new-build).

vango I don't disagree with you at all, Helen was somewhat stuck between a rock and a hard place - Tom put her in a really awkward position. She did think she was doing the right thing but as ever with her, there was an element of 'me me me'. Kirsty did completely overreact but she made a good point about unintended pressure, and that what I meant about the whole Bridge Farm lot - they're all so HEAVY and Kirsty knows that. And come on, her hormones are all over the shop, she's confused about Tom but she's come to terms with and is excited about the pregnancy. And now the drama farmers are going to blow everything up. I actually this this is all being written well and true to character - they're all flawed, some more deeply than others! I think Pat's reaction might scare her away!

Thanks MrsA! But I honestly didn't hear any "me, me, me".

As for the comment above about Helen talking to Kirsty in her place of work, no-one's yet complained that Roy asked her about "the baby" loudly when she returned from lunch!

Fwiw, Tom did to Kirsty what Brenda had done to Tom really. Waiting until the day of the wedding wasn't his finest hour but, as you say, they're all flawed.