I'm a celebrity -get me in The Archers! The jury's out in Ambridge.

[PseudoBadger]

New thread for the celebrity packed hour long special tonight! Welcome to regulars and newbies alike

NO SPOILERS please there's a thread for that here

Added by MNHQ: NB there will be spoilers on this thread for those who are yet to listen to the one hour special.

Stars, difficult one when you're faced with it like that. I would hope that if Pat is challenged on it she'll be able to say that she came face to face for the first time with the man who raped her daughter and that that was uppermost in her mind, together with making things as stress-free as possible for Henry.

Though goodness alone knows what will happen at the hearing, as no one appears to have thought about it at all apart from submitting the initial statements. Not that we've been told, at any rate.

I don't think Rob understands why everyone is so cross with him.

I agree. I'm sure he doesn't understand the concept of rape within marriage - after all, they married, so that's consent right there, and what woman wouldn't want his genes siting her offspring? Sure, these women can be needy and don't know what's best for them, but they'll see he's right in the end...

I'm not sure he really understands he's playing mind games, either. He's just doing what you have to do to get things to work out the right way and get people to realise you know know best. It's always worked for his parents, and while he might not have had the happiest childhood, it's mostly worked out in the end, if you ignore the little issue of the uppity, deranged women who don't understand what's best for them.

As for being allowed to see Jack - why would anyone at Bridge Farm trust him after he refused to return Henry? I don't think I would let him until a court ruled on it, and I would hope that would be only with supervision. I don't understand why he wasn't allowed a supervised visit while they were in the MBU, but maybe he never applied for it.

The only evidence for rape is Helen and Jess's word

yes. but their words at court under oath. surely that must weigh heavy?

They've announced a new Editor www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5vFGJHJDWPdPSY77RrmtyQD/meet-the-archers-new-editor-huw-kennair-jones?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=the_archers&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=radio_and_music.
He does listen to the archers, but I didn't see much experience of Radio. And he thinks SOC has done a good job...

He can hardly say otherwise though. Can't hold that against him.

I hope he can deal with radio and 15 mins slots - as soc clearly couldn't

Did anyone notice that when Henry asked to play snakes and ladders he said, "Daddy always wins." Typical Rob. He has to win, even when he's playing a game with a five year old. In the context of his relationship with Helen though, "Daddy always wins" is rather chilling. I hope Helen stays strong. I think she needs to stay in touch with Kaz, she seems to listen to what she says.

I thought Pat dealt with Rob well not letting him see Helen or Jack. She's finally got the measure of him.

I wonder what the reaction will be in the village. I'd like to see Kenton refuse to serve him at The Bull next time he goes there and then bar him to cheers from the regulars.

I don't think Harrison would refuse to let Rob continue with his "coaching", but I suspect that Adam and Johnny would both threaten to resign from the team rather than be around Rob. It's going to be very awkward for Adam dealing with Tob in a work context though. I think that Lillian should speak to Justin again following what came out at the trial. Rob really isn't the right sort of person for the job. Far too much barely repressed anger.

I'm surprised people don't seem to be more worried about Henry. Rob abused, slapped and raped Helen. Pat, Tony and Tom all find him incredibly difficult to deal with. Helen stabbed Rob because she feared that Henry was in danger and now Rob is madder than ever with one of the people Helen loves most almost completely in his power.

Hahahahaha!

SOC replace by the director of 'Mad Dogs'

New title.

Are we out of the frying pan into the fire!

Snakes and ladders is a game of pure luck, you'd have to actively cheat to always win at that.

Here's an question for the legal experts. If a child were conceived through a rape that took place outside a relationship, and the woman chose to keep the child, would the rapist have any rights to see the child? Would it be different for marital rape? And could the mother claim child maintenance?

Let's get the answers straight here first, to save the SWs tying themselves in knots.

I think the married husband is always the legal father, no matter if he's the bio father or not.
please correct me if I'm wrong.

And where the fuck is Henry's social worker??????

Well...
If you are married and have a child there is a legal presumption that the husband is the father of the child- a presumption that can be rebutted - ie father says he's not and dna is used if mother insists he is, or mother says I might be married but child's father is my new boyfriend....

A married father automatically has parental responsibility. An unmarried father only has pr if he is named (by mother and his being there) on the birth certificate or by agreement (What He'll Rob did) or by applying to court if mother doesn't agree...

So a rapist stranger father wouldn't have pr but would as biological father have the right to apply for contact (assuming that he knew about the baby) but would be opposed by mother saying not in child's interests to have contact with rapist stranger...

One of the many ridiculous things about the whole sl has been everyone allowing Knob to go around saying "As Henwees father" and "my son Henwee". Why the fuck don't people - especially her lawyers point out that in no legal sense is he Henwees father - not biologically or through adoption. He is at best his stepfather. When H divorces him he will be an ex step father.

Phew!

Ithinkthe married husband is always the legal father, no matter if he's the bio father or not.

That can't be the case if the bio parents divorce - surely the original father stays the legal father, else we'd hear a lot more about it. Alistair wasn't Dan's legal father until he adopted him, only a step father.

When you adopt you become the legal father and the biological father's legal relationship with the child is severed...

How easy is it to rescind a Parental Responsibility Order? And does it make a difference that the person with the order is not the child's father?

Giddy.

Could you represent Helen in the custardy battle and advise Helen if she decides to press CC? I know you can't go to court as its the CPS, but you would do much better than Anna!

Just looked at Kinnear Jones's details - all his work has been TV & one of his jobs was story editor on East Enders. 😱😱

Am I right in thinking Anna, if she acts for Helen now the criminal trial is over, will need paying, as it's now a civil case and not covered any more by Legal Aid? This could cause the Bridge Farm Archers big financial problems as I'd imagine their family farm is a lot less successful in a monetary sense than the Titchiknob family's. Just as well Peggy is now on side. There would also be more people needing fed from profits than in Titchiknob family, or so it would seem.

I love Giddy's list too. I'd been thinking along those lines, but my list wouldn't have been as professional or comprehensive. Excellent - I hope the script team are paying attention too!

I think Pat's response was the only one in the circs. She also had her daughter to think of - and with her just home after prison she is very vulnerable. Also, they are her children not Pat's. I liked how Rob was quite tentative in his request. He knew he didn't have a leg to stand on. I hope Pat remembers all the time Knob has tried to manipulate over contact with Henry - not only the 'kidnap' but the nonsense about not even greeting Henry is they see him on a day that isn't Sunday.

Of course Rob sounded tentative. He wants to play total victim in this.

At the weekend I was reading some interesting research - done by a very dear friend as part of a law PhD. It's Scots law but it's about how courts make decisions about the welfare of children in the event of parental divorce where there is a history of DV. What she found was that courts are so keen to give children contact with both parents that (usually but not always it's a mother ) a mother's concern over potential violence isn't always heeded.

Yes, Errol, you are probably right! It was always obvious he'd be in denial over his behaviour. All the little woman's fault for being fragile and not knowing what she needed.

yes, I agree that Rob was playing the victim and that his 'pleading' was another attempt at manipulation.

and also agree that it is extremely irritating that no one points out that Rob actually has no REAL relationship with Henry, only a legal one.

It would be great if Helen now kept correcting him or anyone else every time he/they mention him as 'father'. She did correct him the day they went to sign the PR forms, said 'No, stepfather'. It's sad that Henry has not other father figure as he really likes the idea of a 'dad'. Understandable enough.

What age in English law does a child have to be before they can decide whether they want contact with a non-resident parent? In Scotland it's 12.

Henry has loads of close male relatives though, and hopefully Ian will assume 'godfather' responsibilities (in a non-religious sense).