The Archers - We Listen So You Don't Have To

[PseudoBadger]

Happy(?!) Sunday everyone

What will this week have in store for us I wonder?

Pat might stop freaking out long enough to remember the times Rob said 'Helen thinks....' before coming up with an idea only he would have wanted. Also the times she appeared to be coached by him when she expressed a view.
For that matter, she might also remember the times she herself felt intimidated by him. She witnessed him going for Jim and Linda though at the time she approved because it was about the shop.
She needs to think through the whole home birth thing too.
Once she starts turning things on their head in her mind she will start to see it clearly, especially if she talks to Tom.

Lillian got there before me!

I thought Peggy was being reasonable about the hairdresser- it was the only thing she was reasonable about.

Rob wasn't known to be abusive

Yes. But Helen wasn't known to be a knife wielding maniac either. So on balance of probability, if it was someone in my family that I knew and loved who had shown no such tendency in the past, I'd assume they had a reason.

Also much though SOC says Rob is charming, he isn't. Other than Peggy no one actually liked him. Tom admired him, briefly. He was a valued member of the cricket team. But no one actually wanted to hang out with him or thought he was life and soul. Mostly they just thought he was smarmy or were mildly uncomfortable (e.g. shop scene where he tells H to sit).

I wonder if SOC sees himself as charming

I know he is meant to be a psychopath (although SOC said psychotic - not the same?) And psychopaths are often charming but I don't think that aspect of Rob, unlike his nasty side, was well written.

Peggy otoh, infuriating though it is, is very much in keeping with her character.

when I finally left my Narcissistic Personality Disordered exH after 12 years of marriage my 97 year old grandmother totally totally got it so Peggy could do too - age is not an excuse!

Hi Newbie to TA (last 3-5 years) and the group (3 months?). I'm delurking to say Hi .
I've brought raspberry and white chocolate muffins (homemade of course) [offers round].
My theory - Henry is going to be key. My bet is he saw (and heard) more than we realised that night. My betting is he heard Rob's words about how "that's the only way you'll ever get away from me" before Helen shouted about him being a monster. Previously Henry didn't answer back (at least to Rob) but when he was yelled at to go back to bed he first asked "Why's Mummy upset" and then when ordered, threateningly, by Rob he uncharacteristically said "No" quite obstinately. I think at some level he was trying to protect his mother. This is going to come out at trial. The beauty of it is that he is a prosecution witness being kept away from Helen who is also refusing to speak to her family ( no interference with the witness) so when it does come out it will seriously undermine the prosecution case as to motive and introduce the case against Rob and mitigate her culpability, so reducing her potential sentence (assuming we're correct in our interpretation of how he came to be stabbed - I have an alternative theory about that too, which H may also be key to explaining. Regardless I think he saw and heard more than we give have considered yet.

Rob wasn't known to be abusive

Yes. But Helen wasn't known to be a knife wielding maniac either. So on balance of probability, if it was someone in my family that I knew and loved who had shown no such tendency in the past, I'd assume they had a reason.

Yes, I agree. The point I was clumsily trying to make is that while we all know Rob was dreadful and abusive, other people, despite not liking him, didn't. There is a huge gap between not liking someone and imagining they are as abusive as Rob.

So far there is no real evidence out in the wider world as to what was going on or why she behaved as she did............except of course the mental health card, and no doubt Rob will play that one. She has a known history of an eating disorder and Rob set up a very clear timeline of her recent instability, fabricated or otherwise, and he coached her before her session with the psychiatrist, sowed lots of little seeds of doubt with Pat etc etc - so he's set her up to look bad in court - so at this point I agree with Lillian that things don't look good for Helen - until the Ambridge legal fairy weaves her magic!

NotPerfect - welcome! I love to see a good delurk. Nice muffins, by the way, .

I think you make a good point. Tonight's episode showed that things aren't looking great for Helen as it is going to be her word against Rob's, with the outside world having only fragments of abusive behaviour at best, or completely taken in by Rob as Peggy is. The only witness who can break the deadlock is Henry.

But how can baby-talking Mr Awwright transform into the defence's star witness?

Henry's testimony might go like this:

Awwwwwight peeps. Listen up this is how it is awwwwight. Daddy or should I say Wob is not nice awwwwight. I pretended to be three so he wouldn't really notice me. But I'm not three. I is five awwwight you get me. I am a big boy. I read the papers. I watch television. I know what goes on in the world. And I know a wrong un when I sees one. ..... so I am going to tell you the way it is. Awwwwwight.

[Gives damning testimony before going on to explain to Tom his plans to revolutionise Ambrudge Organics whilst remainung trye to their core principles]

Basically he has turned into the new Stewie from Family guy.

I think Henry will be key but I also think Rob will slip up at some point when it looks most bleak for Helen.

i'm not so sure about what will happen to helen.

from a throwaway comment in todays ep (was at parents house) we are now moving on from "highlighting" dv to The Plight of Women Offenders.

YY NotPerfect and welcome! Remember Henwee's line a few episodes pre-stabbing?

"I'll look after you Mummy". LP even commented in an interview how much that got to her. I suspect it was very deliberate dramatic foreshadowing.

PS I will not hear a word against June Spencer's acting! She is marvellous and Piggy is very well written.

Why can't Pat think of anything? Really? There were loads of things that changed about Helen: appearance, work, wages, driving, temper. Why is she still thinking these are down to Helen and not examples of Rob's control? She must see these things as controlling. I never understood why the wages thing wasn't a major red flag for her.

Can any criminal law knowledgeable people comment on Pat discussing Helen's case with Anna? It sounded as if Anna had had no contact with Helen and has certainly not been instructed yet by either Helen or Helen's solicitor on Helen's behalf. We know that Pat has not been given any authority by Helen to do anything on her behalf. Should Anna have been discussing strategy with Pat? For all she knows Pat could be secretly on Knob's side and playing a crafty game. But more fundamentally it just struck me as wrong from a lawyer client relationship perspective.

As a civil lawyer, I would not dream of having such a discussion with someone who approached me and said "can you sue on behalf of/defend my relative/colleague/partner. Instructions have to come from the client and the client only. Although once you are instructed it is normal to interview witnesses without the client present.

Also, where do you draw the line re prosecution and defence witnesses? Kitsty is an obvious prosecution witness but it doesn't take too much imagination to envisage Pat being called by the prosecution.

You'd think Pat would now remember things like Helen not being woken up to watch Henry open his presents, not coming too dinner at Bridge farm and Rob saying she had a headache and would be in bed when she suggested visiting, not driving, not being paid her own salary, not being allowed to work, Rob gradually and insidiously taking over her job, the list is endless.

You'd think Pat would now remember things like Helen not being woken up

She would, if the SWs hadn't completely changed her character from The Only Feminist in the Village to a Stepford wife.

But how many of these things does Pat actually know? I'm sure Helen didn't tell her about the presents, she probably felt guilty about that.

I'm sure that Pat remembers that Rob's mother was allowed to access all areas whilst Hell's mother was kept at arm's length. It's nearly a fortnight since the stabbing so Pat has had plenty of time to ruminate - her mind is working exceedingly slowly, especially when you consider that Tom was listing Rob's wrong-doings fairly soon after the disclosure by Kirsty of EA.
I might grudgingly concede that Pat is subconsciously trying to smother the growing realisation that she failed to spot the EA, but the imperative to save Helen would override personal pride.

Helen may not have told Pat about oversleeping on Christmas Day but Pat does know that BHC were coming to BF for the day (and the special tree-hanging ceremony) until a sudden, last-minute change of plan - yet another example of isolating Helen from her family.

Pat is being written as being in a state of hysterical denial. Which doesn't quite tally with her handling of the many other crisis Bridge Farm has faced (like the ecoli, where I remember her being pretty level headed). Although I will allow having your daughter in prison for stabbing her apparently adoring partner would be a shock for most people.

Perhaps it's Pat who was, previously, a MNer? Looking up all the things not to do as a MIL. Reading all the threads from brand new nuclear families determined to "start their own traditions" - all outraged that grandparents, etc might still want to be involved.

Still, it's odd. The Bridge Farm residents would surely have been up all night, every night, since it happened. Going over every detail, every memory, every vague feeling they had in the past. They would absolutely have arrived, by now, at an understood position - this is what we think.

And all the evidence of coercive control staring them in the face.

My problem with Henwee being the saviour with his witness testimony is that it was after interviewing him the the police charged Hellin with attempted murder rather than a lesser charge.

Someone needs to give Pat a good shake as her wittering and hysterical denial of anything being noticeably wrong with Hellin is driving me potty. Give her pen and paper and a quiet room fgs

SmallLegs your writing is priceless, absolutely my favourite posts

Booming - I was aware as I was making a comment about Henry last night that the big flaw is exactly as you say that it was portrayed as if Henry's testimony triggered a charge of accused murder. But it still might be that Henry might reveal more than the focussed questioning from the police revealed.

Davros - I agree, Small's writing made me laugh.