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Discuss your favourite podcast, radio show or The Archers episode.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

The Archers - We Listen So You Don't Have To

986 replies

PseudoBadger · 10/04/2016 09:04

Happy(?!) Sunday everyone Brew Cake

What will this week have in store for us I wonder?

OP posts:
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Gruach · 13/04/2016 09:11
Grin
redshoeblueshoe · 13/04/2016 09:36

glowfrog I meant it as a compliment. We tie ourselves in knots on here, saying why we disagree with what characters say and do, when really its the stupid sw's who are causing us all the problems Brew

Boomingmarvellous · 13/04/2016 10:02

Jazzed deserved a smack in the mouth. I'm just relieved he didn't report it because Tom would have been done for assault. More complications.

I think Hellin isn't unusual character wise. She's complex, like most people. She has moments of kindness and thoughtfulness and ones of being self centred. She's utterly devoted to henwee and a caring mother. Maybe losing a brother early on affected her emotional growth?

Davros · 13/04/2016 10:02

smalleggs I roared out loud at your imagined exchange, hilarious!

Boomingmarvellous · 13/04/2016 10:04

Lynda has moments of supreme kindness and others of pompous grandiosity. Complex too

glowfrog · 13/04/2016 10:09

Ah ok - I thought so redshoe but wasn't quite sure. Grin let's have some Cake with that Brew.

to think in a former life I was a script editor

R4 · 13/04/2016 10:09

She's utterly devoted to henwee and a caring mother.

So what? Most mothers are devoted and caring. Isn't that the sort of no-brainer that politicians talk about when they want something non-controversial to align themselves to - 'motherhood and apple pie'.

2rebecca · 13/04/2016 11:06

I have never seen Helen as independent. Agree she is stubborn but has always been totally dependent on her family for housing/ childcare/ jobs.
Debbie is an example of an independent woman.
Someone even slightly independent wouldn't have accepted being told not to drive just because they are pregnant, mind you no-one except Kirsty thought that was weird so maybe Ambridge is a technology blackspot, they still have a horse drawn carriage after all..

Gruach · 13/04/2016 11:28

Ah - now this is taking us closer to what makes Helen tick.

To me she seems (on reflection) a really interesting study of a deeply conflicted modern (as opposed to contemporary) woman. She grew up in a household with a fiercely feminist, independent thinker for a mother - so imbibed a particular view of ideal womanhood as an abstract idea; forging ahead, breaking down barriers, refusing to be held back by the patriarchy. But on the other hand she was part of a farming dynasty and there was never any practical need for her to do the things she had learnt women should do. When the fairytale didn't materialise she was able to galvanise all her intellectual strength into making Henry - no wonder she was so harsh towards Tony, it must have seemed as if he wanted to deny her the culmination of hundreds of years of feminist struggle. Then she met Rob - and her head exploded.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/04/2016 11:30

Morning all. What a time to choose to go off on holiday! On Sunday 3rd April we were wandering round wind-girt Troy (how right Homer was about that - we could scarcely keep our feet at times), thinking of another Helen. Late that evening, in our lovely hotel by the sea, it occurred to me that maybe I could hear TA on my phone (yes, I am that obsessed - I also knew from the Radio Times spoilers that it was likely to be a big week). I couldn't get i player to work, but put that down to the hotel wifi.

Next morning, I woke very early so thought I'd have another go. I typed 'The Archers BBC' into Google and instead of BBC catch up page being first hit, as normal, I was confronted by a page of screaming headlines from the UK press - 'Archers breaks Twitter after first ever murder in Ambridge!' I think was the DM's offering. I was astounded - I knew something was going to kick off, but as you have all said already, very eloquently, why on earth did they decide to do it this way round! Surely she was the one at risk of violence, not Rob!

I haven't missed a moment of TA since. In other circs, I'd have waited to listen to the film once we were home, but not last week! I've also read all the many, many threads during long drives out to assorted ruined cities, and have been bursting to post, but I hate doing it from my phone, so have contained myself till now. So I'm afraid normal nerdy service will now resume! Grin

LillianGish · 13/04/2016 11:55

It appears to be very difficult to be independent if you come from Ambridge - so many of the stalwarts work in family business and live in family properties. Ruth was independent in that she she came from miles away to make her home in the village, but none of her children are - they will live and work on the family farm. Even Debbie works in a family business (albeit in Hungary). Pat was supremely independent, but all Helen's jobs have been in the family business - she had a moment of independence living alone above the village shop and conceiving Henry, but was soon back in the family fold and the family home. The truly independent women are people like Kirsty and Hailey (so independent she's now living somewhere else entirely) and therein lies the problem - anyone truly independent probably wouldn't choose to stay in Ambridge. So Kate, for instance, who clearly has an independent streak, can only get back in the cast by being brought home to daddy. When Pat says of Hellin "She's always been so independent" what she means is she's always want things her own way - which I think we can agree on.

glowfrog · 13/04/2016 12:04

OMG Kate. Can't stand her. She can best Helen for selfishness any day.

R4 · 13/04/2016 12:08

They need more 'independent' characters or else the cast list will grow exponentially as the generations roll on. I do wonder if that is the reason that Dan (an only) has gone off to the army - it will neatly shut down that branch of the family. Just like Christine's only DC has shut down that line, too, by being abroad.

Gruach · 13/04/2016 12:10

The truly independent women are landless.

Kate isn't - her entire life has been funded by her parents (allowance, cottage income) even when she was in SA.

For me the beauty of TA is that it's not just "about a village". The fact of being bound to the land is the thing that determines the character and actions of most people who live there. I've said it before but, going through Ambridge history, the number of people who have either inherited, been lent or helped to buy land and attendant property is staggering. And everything else stems from that.

EmilyDickinson · 13/04/2016 12:11

Totally agree with you Lillian independent = wants her own way.

Another problem with Helen having all her friends and family in Ambridge is that she'll have no one to stay with when and if she gets bail and she isn't allowed to come back to the area.

I'm struggling to think who she could stay with who doesn't live locally.

Charlie? Matthew? Coriander? Leonie? Carol's daughter? None of them seem terribly likely. Does Pat have any relations?

The disadvantages of having all your relations living in the same village.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/04/2016 12:12

When Pat says of Hellin "She's always been so independent" what she means is she's always want things her own way - which I think we can agree on. Amen to that, Lillian!

When Tom says of Helen 'She's so kind!' I suspect we are expected to find that a very revealing remark, because as so many have already said, she isn't notably kind. She was very unkind indeed to Hayley after John died and she upset Clarrie at around the same time by promoting Tracy Horrobin. One of Helen's many problems has always been that she is a very poor judge of character. Tracy sucked up to Helen, who was obviously very low after John's death and Pat's depression, and Helen couldn't see through that.

It was obvious from very early on in her time with Greg that she had not picked an easy man to spend her life with, but she is always too proud to admit that she's made a mistake, so she ploughed on with that relationship well past the point when common sense would have suggested drawing back, and got very badly hurt when he sank into depression, got nasty with her (was he violent? can't now remember), she left him and he killed himself.

Of course, we saw then, as we've seen so many times since, that she just can't cope with criticism or even just someone drawing attention to a less than desirable personality trait in her chosen partner. Her response to that has always been to draw even closer to the man concerned.

After Greg there was Leon, the obnoxiously supersmooth Australian barman, who IIRC more or less raped Annette - it certainly wasn't a mutual attraction between them. That happened when he and Helen were still together, I think. Helen was totally unable to see that Annette was very unhappy when she found out she was pregnant. All she (H) could seem to think was that this was wonderful news and that A could now stay in Ambridge long-term and she (H) could help to bring the baby up. She didn't give A any space at all to explain her point of view. So Annette went behind H's back to arrange the abortion and hotfooted it out of Ambridge as fast as she could.

And then we have the weird stalkery behaviour towards that journalist whose name escapes me, the heavy drinking and desperate sleeping around on a holiday she took in the Med somewhere with Kirsty, and the coup de grace - the night she insisted on driving while drunk and knocked down Mike Tucker - then somehow got Tom to take the blame because he could pass a breathalyser test and she couldn't. That wasn't kind to Tom at all. At least she did finally tell Mike the truth.

No, not getting this 'kind person' thing at all, but I suppose Tom sees what he wants to see, and in recent years that's mostly been how Helen is with Henry. She seems a lot softer with Henry than Pat ever was with her children. Maybe that's what's in Tom's mind.

BeaufortBelle · 13/04/2016 12:29

I'm not getting all this "landed" business. Tony and Pat have for years been the poor relations. They are very small fry compared to David and Ruth and Brian and Jennifer. Let's hope the car business doesn't come out.

Rob clearly identified a victim he could manipulate.

Wouldn't it be nice, even in Ambridge to have a few really down to earth uncomplicated people who do well at school, go to uni, get some professions quals, marry a nice person and stay on good terms with friends and family. Is there hope for Freddie and Lily or possibly Phoebe?

Davros · 13/04/2016 12:30

I don't see Pat as independent either. She TALKS about women being independent but I can't see how she has ever been so personally. Just like my own DM who filled our heads for years with stuff about getting married and having children being for stupid and subservient women! It spoiled me and my two sisters' feelings and approach to those parts of our lives and we eventually realised that is exactly what our DM had done with her own life and not much else!

glowfrog · 13/04/2016 12:33

Beaufort that wouldn't make for good drama, though!

glowfrog · 13/04/2016 12:34

Btw, am not getting update notifications for any threads I'm watching today. Is anyone else having the same issue? Settings are all as should be.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/04/2016 12:44

Davros, Pat has been independent within her marriage. Jill and Jennifer settled comfortably into the traditional farmer's wife role and took responsibility for cooking, childrearing and running the household, but did very little work on the farm. Pat was an equal partner in the business with Tony and set up the Bridge Farm Dairy, developing the products, employing staff etc etc. Pat has never, ever that I can recall filled Helen's head with ideas that getting marrried and having children was for stupid and subservient women, which would have been perverse given that she'd done it herself.

lottiegarbanzo · 13/04/2016 13:04

Yes, Pat has always been an equal partner, which was groundbreaking at the time.

Helen has always been a lone operator, certainly as far as decision-making goes - until her recent co-operation with Tom to run the farm - and I think that's what Pat means by independent. H does her research, makes a decision, sees it through, is conscientious even a perfectionist and lives with the consequences. That approach served her well with cheese-making, Ambridge Organics and Henry but not with her choice of men.

MrsKwazii · 13/04/2016 13:05

There does always seem to have been the "Helen has a lot on her plate" line trotted out though. It feels that because she's highly-strung that everyone has tiptoed around her. She comes across as not an easy person to be around.

MrsKwazii · 13/04/2016 13:06

On another note, do you think the Bridge Farm clan will start remembering how Knob managed to hasten the end of the old shop with crap ordering and employing a useless manager?

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 13/04/2016 13:16

I think we probably all know someone in RL who is a bit headstrong and likely to throw a tantrum to get what they want while the rest of the family tip-toe about trying to "keep the peace".

Actually it's literally just occurred to me that there is a person in my family who might be having a similarly tough time with her partner. It genuinely hadn't occurred to me before because she's always been a bit of a nightmare. It isn't helped by the fact her mother feels that no man is ever good enough for her and so tends to treat the man a bit shabbily which seems to push them closer together. I think I probably ought to have a word with dh as it's his side of the family Blush

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