SOC reveals he's a quitter whilst Keri sews up plot holes on Twitter about the wicked wife-sitter! Discuss the Archers here.

[PseudoBadger]

Not long until our thread's 3 year birthday!

Pat it's been totally sidelined as she doesn't fit in with the storyline. I'd be surprised if SOC even remembers Amy she was so long since written out.

DH has just sent me this

I'm increasingly confused about Knob's motivation.

First we had him constantly saying things that were almost inevitably going to push Helen into anorexia with no concern about how that might harm SOK, and apparently not noticing that she wasn't eating. After her collapse, he realised the dangers and started guilt-tripping her about killing the Wunderkind. So either it didn't occur to him that a known anorexic might have a relapse under that sort of pressure or that her starving herself might harm the baby. I know no-one ever said that an abuser has to be bright, but really?

Then we have him hating his parents, suddenly his mother is the only person he trusts to look after Helen and she's completely aiding and abetting him in his control freakery.

Now, despite the safety of SOK being paramount, he's happy to take his mother' views about childbirth formed 30 years earlier over the advice of doctors and midwives.

I'd like to think there's some coherent plan to this, but I really struggle to see what it could be.

That Spectator article is an interesting one. I think we'd all take issue with their assessment that this storyline is having an impact because it is so realistic, although the basic premise certainly is.

It says "It has become impossible for Timothy Watson, the actor playing Rob, to appear at Archers events, so vitriolic is the abuse thrown at him by disturbed listeners". I wonder if that's really true? I know there are nutters everywhere, but I would have thought most TA listeners can separate fact from reality. I read something in the summer about him being hissed at Archers' events, but as I read it that was essentially good-natured, like hissing at pantomime villains.

I thought he wanted her to relapse so he'd have control? And he (and presumably the Mother of the Antichrist) knows that she will just feel bad when confronted with sugary treats* and conflicted about/have to find a strategy for resisting them.

*Mmm... sugary treats... it's lunchtime.

I know Gruntled. With the recent survey showing TA demographic being typically educated, female 40+ it's hard to imagine TW being afraid for his life at Archers events.
And as for being gripped by the realistic storyline, I think I speak for many when I say frustrated, infuriated at the lack of cohesion and the apparent departure from true characters would be more the tone of discussion with regards to the HelRob storyline.

to the misinformation spouted about vbac. I had 2 sections followed by one hospital vbac and three HB.
Sorry but it makes me cross.
Helen would be advised to go into hospital but no one can actually make her.

Good God, one of the comments on that Spectator article:

Arthur Sparknottle • 4 hours ago
It is barely possible to listen to The Archers any more. I started listening to it in the 1950s and rarely missed an episode of decades. Now, it is so full of modern north London concerns and attitudes that it is barely recognisable. Long gone are the rural tales of the rascally Grundy family, poaching and selling illegal cider. Now it is packed full of homosexuals to such a density as to be more like a San Fransisco bath house in the 1970s - more a case of I'm the only straight in the village', than the other way around. All the women are feminist pantomime characters; capable, entrepreneurial survivors, and the men are either cads, roues or feeble wretches. It is a PC dream world of a most hideous sort - utterly unrealistic since in my experience, rural communities are in general far more reactionary than any urban environment. When the squire's daughter Kate, the last (or almost) in a long line of Anglo-Saxon progeny, turned up with a coal black baby, sired by South African boyfriend, Lucas, nobody raised an eyebrow. Only rascally Eddie Grundy gave the slightest clue that he was a bit surprised when he paused slightly on first meeting the little chap, saying, 'Oh - - he does have a lot of hair, doesn't he.' Hilarious! All teh conversation about Kate's surprise baby was that she had one. No one said anything about him being black. Would that REALLY happen? No. Even the vicar under Whitburn's editorship was married to a Hindu, and they now have a huge statue of Ganesh in the vicarage hallway and everybody is totally right on about it. What a load of old dross. I blame Vanessa Whitburn for most of the horrible deterioration, but her successors have done no better. Regarding the latest plot device of the psychological destruction of Helen Archer by the hideous Titchners; the idea that Helen's family would not have noticed and done something about it, or that her feminist harpy mother, Pat would not have hit Rob over the head with a large tractor spanner by now, is utterly ridiculous.

Packed full of homosexuals
coal black baby
All the women are feminist pantomime characters

All this 'it's your decision, darling' shite is just setting her up for a fall. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't!

MrsAS that comment is like a sardonic Daily Mail letter circa 1953.

I have a friend who thank goodness escaped from a situation scarily similar to Helen's. During her pregnancies her ex coerced her into making decisions that went against medical advice despite his apparent concern for the babies. At the time, it made no sense and lots of people did lose patience with them.

In retrospect, it made no sense because we all started from the basic assumption that he did actually care about his wife and child. In actual fact, I don't think he was really capable of 'real' feelings. He lived (lives) his life entirely as the lead character in his own soap opera. A negative outcome would simply have allowed him to play another 'juicy role' of grieving father while still controlling my friend. I honestly think this would have been as satisfying to him. Knowing them as a couple during that period was rather like living in a soap opera.

Also, much as I dislike the introduction of Ursula, in my friend's case, his parents did join in with the abuse.

Fortunately in their case the babies and mum were fine and they left him. Years later is is still causing pain and destruction though

Yes that's fascinatingSwirling These sort of things DO go on, upsetting as they are. I'm pleased I only listen to TA and watch Call The Midwife There's enough heavy emotion there to be going on with !

Where the fuck is this going? Home birth? Have a bit of danish / feed my eating disorder. The addition of Ursula is bonkers. I am actually getting annoyed.

I cannot believe Helen is still going along with all of this shite.

Did she see a different mid-wife by chance or design?

What's the betting she doesn't make it to Tom's party...

swirl yes that is kind of why I don't gind Rob's ideas re. Home birth too odd. It the idea of a vaby mot the actual baby he is concerned about in the same way he has an idea of a wife.

I do however, find the colluding mum a bridge too far.

bigbuttons hope I didn't annoy you too much. I meant that hospitals do often offer/recommend c section after previous cs. (They did with both my sister and a friend recently. Dsis had vbac, friend had cs. Dsis then went on to have 3rd pg, 2nd cs and was pretty much told no more kids)

Apparently the research swung from vbac bad to vbac actually ok then back to vbac bad again recently because a study showed increased risk of uterine rupture...but this turned out to be due to induction not vb itself so induction is contraindicated post cs
as part of my research for this thread I read an interesring article by a mw saying ppl do opt for HBAC and they are more likely to meet their chosen outcome and have lower mortality than those who opt for hospital vbac. (However all figures can be skewed because women/babies who are more likely to die are more likely to be in hospital)

Also article about PE saying it is less likely in subsequent pg with the same partner but that monitoring is essential.

Speaking of, I guess that scan was additional because of the hospital admission. She had private scan and then 20 wk scan a while ago.

What I think is not realistic is, as yet, we have yet to hear the mw or consultant give an opinion on:

• her weight
• risk of PE and monitoring
• her MH
• home birth/ vbac/ cs or anything else

And yet emphasising it is the woman's choice.

Yet we have had lengthy lectures on the colours and milk yields of cows, various dairy pastures, the never ending herbal leys, pastured eggs v free range, soil quality etc. So its not like they have any trouble doing an infomercial in TA. I suppose they do have an agri researcher and no medical one - this much is clear!!

wish Helen would say, well Rob when you give birth you are welcome to do so at home likewise Ursula you feel free to have a HB with your next child.

Arthur Sparknottle is hilarious! Every line a gem. Does he really exist?

idea of a baby not the actual baby

Also my ex was the most illogical inconsistent yet strident arsehole going. The only person who was allowed to contradict him was himself.

I don't remember who it was but a famous and very elderly writer, when asked, said that she had been happiest when she was 68. This gives me inexpressible hope. And a certain excitement in anticipation of the fun Lillian should soon be having.

Were it not for that I think I might actually ... do that thing, with the radio switch, that I couldn't quite being myself to do even after the fall of Nigel. I am this close.

Don't like the spectator article, the tone and some strange points made.

I dislike EE scriptwriting and stopped watching many years ago due to horrible, misogynist storylines, and that was some time before they did the terrible story about the bereaved mother stealing a baby.

I don't think it seems to be building up to rob being exposed, leaving or being murdered . Unless perhaps he physically beats Helen or rapes her (again) and she or a witness goes to the police. It seems more likely that Helen and/or the baby will die

small legs don't worry
My consultant assumed I would have a third CS and was happy to regale me with horror stories and admonish me for my choice. I left his room in tears. It was only when I spoke with senior midwife that she told me that consultants are twitchy and have a skewed view of childbirth because they only ever see the more complicated cases. She had plenty of positive stories to tell.
Of course it all depends why a CS is needed in the first place. There will be cases where the safest and most sensible route will be to have a CS.
It is true about induction. I was not allowed one. My vabac babies were all three weeks late as a consequence!

Sorry for the derailment!

bigbuttons you can be to birth what dairyfarmerswife is to dairy stories

I think the challenge would be finding a mw for H so I am betting either bring back Amy or Rob and U suggest private. (They might think a mw they pay is less likely to voice concerns about H) or she ends up rushed to hospital and Rob says I have no idea what you were thinking darling, wanting a homebirth. You know I always said hospital but you just wouldn't listen darling and in the end it has to he your fault choice.

I may have missed it but why has no one commented on the most crucial part of last night's episode...the key phrase
"I love farming innit!"
I missed who it was Josh/Johnny? Getting geeking with Adams amazing tractor skills...

Johnny. Meant to say big BOOP for reappearance of Johnny.
When Adam said he reminded him of someone- Charlie? Or John?

Hello you two! Two omnibuses I think then I'll be caught up.
Place marking? Oh nooooah

a study showed increased risk of uterine rupture...but this turned out to be due to induction not vb itself so induction is contraindicated post cs

that's interesting. I had 4 CSs in the 80s/90s. 2nd one was supposed to be a trial of labour for a VBAC, but due to a combination of circs they started trying to induce at barely 40 weeks (scan said it was 42 but it wasn't) & absolutely nothing happened so that became a CS too.

Then 3rd had to be another CS (1988) and had to be done early due to risk of uterine rupture. They went for 39 weeks by scan but again, due to scan being wrong, it was more like 38. 4th one had to be even earlier. Both babies were very scrunched up & unwilling to arrive just then, poor little dots

If they'd known then about the induction thing presumably they could have left it much longer. Late deliveries run in my family so I reckon I could have been left until 42 weeks by my dates (do they take any more notice of mother's dates these days or are scan dates still the last word?)

bigbuttons 'My vabac babies were all three weeks late as a consequence!'

Yes! This is what I think mine should have been. Well done you for sticking to your guns