Old (Hall), New (build), Borrowed (money). Will Ambridge be feeling blue the morning after? Discuss The Archers wedding and the aftermath here.

[PseudoBadger]

Roll up roll up for The Wedding special from Catheter Hall. Is the lark flying high? Will Krusty jam that ring on the porky finger?

TheOne got it spot on . Very good '...or a tractor'

I reckon that scream was actually VW realising that TA is now, under SO'C, the hot property it always should have been.

Sorry for not replying earlier Toldmywrath but my odd name is thanks to youngest daughter who has invented a world where I am a one fanged hairy creature wearing a nappy. I am loveable though and my name is Ewie. She has created names (and species) for all of us. Needless to say she is an adorable, graceful mouselike creature. I am aware it is controlling but it makes us laugh....

Anyway - I was much cheered by someone bothering to mention that Patrick looked like he wanted to deck Tom - with so much else going on that has to be significant.

My next prediction is that Helen, having presumably lost her shop assistant, will be having to work harder there. Which will mightily displease Rob ...he's already been a bit belittling about her cheesemaking so he'll probably try to disempower her over that as well.

I've never really listened to The Archers properly, although I am a R4 listener- I was put off starting by noticing a few threads saying it had all gone to shit (to do with a Lilian?). I knew that an old school friend of mine had been in it as an Eco-warrior, but I had no idea she was such a central character. I saw her name in a tweet and realised tonight! I'm gutted to have missed all the build up, but I'm iplayering the last few now. I really hope they keep her character on, because I'll definitely start listening then.

Annabelle was a good pal at school, in all my classes, and she's the loveliest most down-to-earth person- I'm thrilled to realise she's doing so well!

I think Tom may do something dreadful to himself. To have the whole family railing against him like that - he was stunned wasn't he?

Did anybody else listen to the item before on PM, about the German artworks in Poland, & the German spokesman Professor Dr Dr Hermann Parzinger?

"Dr Dr because he has 2 doctorates" I think most British academics would settle for the single title of Professor...

(Anyway IMO Germany isn't entitled to have them back )

So can you explain to someone not au fait with the plot why Helen is to blame, please?

Tom rang her on his stag night to kind of suggest that he was feeling a bit dithery - I can't remember exactly what he said but he certainly wasn't wholeheartedly celebrating (mind you it was a pretty shit night all round, mostly thanks to Rob)

I think Helen just dismissed it as pre-nuptial jitters. as you would

she shouldn't have even hinted at it to Kirsty

Apart from because she is generally obnoxious, BOFster?

Only because Tom rang her from his stag night to drunkenly express his doubts about the whole thing, and when he decided to put it all down it drink/nerves the next day, she (a) chose to believe him and (b) didn't tell Kirsty (talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't..)

All of which would generate sympathy, were Helen not quite such a prat and were she not walking herself and her small son into an incredibly abusive relationship (which is, again, not really her fault. She has ishooos)

Errol, she will find anew shop assistant. BUT what she has lost is her best friend, and the person who can protect her - to a point - from BadRob. In some ways I can see why H didn't tell Kirsty about Tom's worries, apart from it being his job to tell Kirsty if he was having doubts. But probably nobody expects this - we caught the signs and put it together. From the other characters' view it was all going as planned more or less. People don't consider it/jilting will happen in their family/social circle. Helen was also a tad wrapped in her own affair/s.

I find it a good sign that Kirsty is so angry. She isn't blaming herself. Hopefully she can recover. Pages ago somebody said she hasn't been humiliated and people will all have sympathy for her - but to her it must be a huge and public humiliation. I hope Patrick isn't another lame duck. Maybe a totally new character would be better.

I think the Bridge Farm scene was good. All the others in shock, terribly upset for Kirsty who they all love, and very disappointed in Tom. Maybe when the dust has settled Pat (and Peggy?) will be kinder to Tom. Tony was harsh but it had to be said.

Maybe it WAS all in his mind that he was expected to 'shadow' John, but I think that was how he felt inside. He did take on the pigs after showing no interest. He was very young and shocked when John died. He was never portrayed as anything else - just a vaguely Casanova pig entrepreneur. Maybe his frenetic activity and obsession with pig husbandry was all a reaction, trying to be something he didn't deep down want. And, like his dad, wanting his mammy to love him. They were all so damaged by John's death. I think it is realistic, even if the lines and dramas are a bit odd at times. Tom is still a selfish bastard though. I felt only fleeting pity for him.

Ach, tis only a story. Good night, all.

I thought it would be Herr Prof Dr Dr.

I just googled to check, and the piece I turned up was this one which confirmed that, but was mainly about the fact that under a Nazi-era law, only PhDs and medical doctors who qualified in Germany were entitled to call themselves Doctor there - this was extended to EU citizens (whew! DH and I are safe!) but that a few American PhDs there have undogone criminal investigation for 'title abuse'

Totally OT but a one!
( don't British profs really hanker to be Prof Sir .... )

Thanks

As an aside, I have just clicked on that jilting thread, and it has vanished

Errol I have met DrDrs, and HerrDrs, and yes they did all expect to be addressed as such. Strange (to us) but true.

Totally understandable why Helen didn't mention Tom's stag-night wobble to Kirsty - stupid of Helen to admit to it. But excellent planned PD to ensure that rift. (didn't someone ask back then why they were on the phone to each other on the stag night... now we know, it was written not in the stars but in the mid-range plot lines )

x-post while I was doing my marathon above. TheONe, the DrDr thing is just a German custom. I agree it is a bit eccentric, but just is.

I only half-listened to the artwork story - were they stolen from individuals? In which case wouldn't they go back to families/descendants? Or from the government/galleries? DH missed Eddie M anyway so maybe we'll listen to both items tomorrow.

I have cocoa.

I know a General Professor Sir. I hold out vague hopes that he will decide to become a vicar so he can be The Reverend General Professor Sir.

Wonder what the record longest stack of German honorifics is.

Patrick a lame duck? No, surely he's actually a solid, dependable but quiet member of the community. (tries to think of a solid, dependable, quiet but musical bird ... but by their nature flighty, so that analogy is doomed)

ohhh...another thought... wonder if the one person who will understand Tom's identity crisis and the final blow of the tractor will turn out to be Hayley ... Tom's friendship with Roy is probably under strain now too...

They were German govt-owned documents, moved by the Nazis to Poland from Berlin in 1944 when it was being pounded by British bombers

They have been in Poland ever since.

Germany wants them back.

Poland says well, you destroyed billions of our documents when you flattened Warsaw after the uprising so we're keeping these as recompense.

Tough one to arbitrate.

(There is Mozart music too. I thought he was Austrian?)

Thanks for that Washington Post link, Errol

They do like to do things by the book in Germany, don't they? the dear things

General Professor Sir sounds so cool - what are the chances of him adding the Rev ?

Tom's always been so (smugly) certain of his whole direction. So now that he's so spectacularly derailed, wouldn't his parents (in among their natural anger with him and their sympathy for Kirsty) feel a smidgeon of concern that this derailment is out of character/signalling a breakdown of some sort?

The way that Tony in particular spoke about and to Tom in tonight's episode seemed vile to me, and not at all fatherly.

So who will extend a hand to Tom- somebody has to. Possibly Kenton or even Ed. I am not convinced by any of his friendships. The collective family rant was brutal - really brutal. I could not treat my ds that way. You surely would feel disappointment and compassion for your own child.