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So, does John Archer have a secret love child?

181 replies

Sinkingfeeling · 15/11/2011 00:56

Is that what Pat was getting at tonight when she was quizzing Susan about how old Kylie's half-brother was? Or am I way off beam?

OP posts:
ragged · 20/11/2011 11:34

Why doesn't Pat just ASK Sharon?

And yes I'm an old time listener so I understand the bitter history, but it was a long time ago, talk about time to let go of the past.
Why did Cathy have to be so dismissive?

Ponders · 20/11/2011 13:21

\link{http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/the-archers/timeline\this is the timeline} caro

can't link to the clip but if you move the marker along to 1998 there's a link above Feb labeled "Death: John Archer"

Ponders · 20/11/2011 13:24

PrincessF, have only just looked at your iplayer link - very cool Grin

Ponders · 20/11/2011 13:29

Had forgotten that in 1998 there were no spoilers so we didn't know until next day (???) whether John had actually died or not - we knew something had but thought he might just be stuck underneath? Am i remembering that right?

ppeatfruit · 20/11/2011 16:40

So Sharon was a bit of a txxt who lived in a caravan or had it off with John while HE was living in the caravan? I wasn't listening much at the time Blush I loved the class warfare between the Archers and Horrobins at the funeral brilliant!

Ponders · 20/11/2011 16:43

ooh, there is an excellent summary of the Sharon/John thing on the BBC MB, I will fetch it for you Smile

Ponders · 20/11/2011 16:47

It is incredibly long. The person who wrote it has a better grasp of continuity than the Archers SWs Hmm Grin

"Strewth! OK, I got interrested and tried to put things into their proper order: Sharon and Kylie, with a side-order of Clive Horrobin. I think this is about it.

Clive had a record for petty theft from about the age of ten: shoplifting and poaching. He left school at sixteen but didn't get a job, just hung around at home all day and somehow seemed to have money.

He was going out with Sharon Richards when they were both seventeen. They got her pregnant and her parents threw her out; she and Clive lived for a short time with his parents, and then when Ivy threw them out for being useless and contributing nothing, they went and lived with Susan and Neil who for some unfathomable reason felt charitable. After a bit, since they were not contributing towards their keep there either, Neil lost his temper about it and they had to move on again, this time to an offer of shelter from the Vicar.

Kylie was born in October 1989 at the Vicarage. At about Christmas 1989 Clive had had enough and left, taking some things of value with him, including Sharon's ghettoblaster (which was careless of him).

Come Spring Sharon was offered the caravan at Bridge Farm for herself and the baby by the caring Pat, and moved there in May 1990 when John was fifteen. He got a crush on her but nothing came of it at that point; he went off to Brymore School that September and she was entirely unmoved.

She gradually started to earn her keep working at Bridge Farm and also had an affaire with the Dane who worked there. In March 1991 she was offered and accepted a council house on The Green, and moved there in April. Clive turned up shortly afterwards to say how devoted he was to "moi liddle gurl" Kylie and try to get himself into the household, but Sharon gave him the bum's rush.

After the Dane went home to Denmark in August 1991 Sharon had a series of jobs and in 1993 or 4 had a brief and mostly sexual affaire with John, which lasted until he met Hayley and gave Sharon the chuck: he had moved into and now moved out of Sharon's house. Sharon took a job as a mother's help in Leeds and left the village.

In April 1993 Clive, who had been a semi-detached resident for a while and I think was not actually living there at the time, chose the single least sensible sub-post-office in the country to rob with a shotgun in his hand: he was of course instantly recognised, and although by taking Debbie and Kate hostage as well as Betty who was working there and Jack who was collecting the takings he managed to escape, he was almost immediately caught, grassed up his accomplice and was sent to a remand centre. He escaped from remand, coerced Susan into helping him, got caught again and got her sent to prison for aiding and abetting him. After that he was sent to prison for four years for the armed robbery. Jack collapsed on the day of that robbery and had to be taken to hopsital for a few days, but it was not a heart attack -- he had one of those in 1974, and also suffered from angina. His pacemaker had already been fitted at the time of the Post Office robbery, after he had collapsed with another heart attack at Grey Gables and been given the kiss of life by Lynda in 1988. So Clive can't really be blamed about Jack's heart-troubles.

Sharon came back to Ambridge in August 1997 to stay with her friend Donna and tried to get back into John's life/bed, with John seeming really quite pleased to spend time with her for almost all the rest of that year. She definitely wanted John rather than Clive, and compared them repeatedly, very much in John's favour.

(In September that year she rang John on his mobile and as a result of talking with her rather than attending to what he was doing, he put himsellf and his tractor into a ditch -- heavy irony or what? Especially since Hayley was the one who patched him up and tended his wounds.)

Coincidentally Clive also came back in 1997, and Sharon was instrumental in getting him caught by the police for several burglaries: he gave her a watch from one of them, and she was too stupid not to say where it had come from thus making it clear that he had had it in his possession, to say the day on which it had been given to her and thus destroy his alibi for George's being beaten up, and to land him in it good and proper for stealing it from George Barford either while he was beating George up and putting him in hospital or when he was burgling the Barfords' house and stealing all Christine's jewellery. He was sent down the following year for GBH on George, and never apparently got any particular punishment for the burglaries even though a lot of the stolen goods were found in his flat in London: at least, he was charged with those burglaries but he never seems to have received any trial or sentence relating to them. So Sharon being in Ambridge at that time was tied in with another storyline: she both destroyed John's life, and saved Eddie (who had not yet been charged but was the main suspect) from being imprisoned for GBH on George by causing Clive to be caught for it.

On 11th November 1997 Hayley came back early from babysitting to April Cottage where she and John were living, and caught Sharon there with John in a distinctly compromising position. Hayley went to her mother in Birmingham; John went after her the following day but she sent him packing. Hayley was still working in Ambridge and had to be there; Sharon was still trying to get back with John as a long-term thing; John now knew that the only person he really wanted to be with was Hayley. But when Hayley came to April Cottage to fetch some stuff on 20th November, and John found her there, most unfortunately Sharon turned up as well (to have a row with John about Pat telling her to sling her hook and leave him alone) and Hayley left again without accepting any explanations.

John was keeping Sharon at arms' length all that month and December but she managed to get him to lend April Cottage to her and Kylie for Christmas Donna had thrown them out. John spent Christmas at Bridge Farm to keep away from her. Most unfortunately again, when he went round to April Cottage after Christmas to tell Sharon that she had to be out by January 1st, Hayley came round at Kate's urging to see Sharon and left again immediately she saw that John was there with Sharon again.

At that point (having done her worst) Sharon finally believed that John really didn't want her, and went off back to Leeds and left the village, on 29th December 1997.

John tried repeatedly to get back with Hayley at the beginning of 1998, and finally persuaded her to go out for dinner with him on 24th February -- he proposed to her that evening and she refused him, on the basis that because of Sharon she didn't trust him any more. The following day he killed himself by driving the old tractor and turning it over.

Sharon came back once after that, to put flowers on John's grave on 26th March and try to make peace with Pat and Tony, but she was given no encouragement by them or by Hayley, and left again after a two-day visit. I don't think she has been mentioned since except as a bad person to employ as a shop-assistant. Kylie may possibly have been at Alice and Christopher's "we are married" party, though I am not sure why she would have been really."

(There is a thread over there atm about Kylie's possible appearance at the wedding - that seems to be another SWs continuity cock-up Confused)

jodevizes · 20/11/2011 17:21

John was quite the ladies man, how many others are waiting in the wings?

ppeatfruit · 21/11/2011 11:08

Wow thanks Ponders what amazing detail!! Sorry i didn't notice if you posted that you think Sharon's youngest is John's or not?

Ponders · 21/11/2011 11:22

I think he could be, pp, given the timings we know of - unless Sharon's final attempt to get back with John was because she was already pg by someone else...???

we need to know Rich's DOB Grin

if he's not John's, she must have hooked up with someone else very quickly (but was it Eamon or A N Other?)

stealthsquiggle · 21/11/2011 11:32

They clearly have something by way of story line in mind, otherwise Pat wouldn't be so unsubtly obsessed with Sharon and Kylie all of a sudden. I had worked out that Kylie couldn't be John's, but had missed the "half-brother" twist altogether (I only hear it if I happen to be in the car at the right time!).

ragged · 21/11/2011 11:55

Sharon was pretty loose & fancy free too, though, I think that's what Pat is really thinking?

carocaro · 21/11/2011 21:05

Thanks and Ponders I fell I should curtsey in your prescence!

I think he is a secret love child and that Sharon will come back and be all Queen of the Manor and start making organic vegetable twizzlers and rename the newly names Ambridge (big letters) Organics (small letters) Bastardo Organics Supremo and make a fotune!

Ponders · 21/11/2011 22:15

I didn't write that essay, caro, I only copied & pasted it! Grin

R4 · 21/11/2011 22:50

They clearly have something by way of story line in mind

Aha! I have worked it out. They can forget calling the new enterprise Ambridge Organics or even Bastardo Organics (love the nameGrin). Pat and Tony will be pensioned off and it will be run by their son & two grandsons and be called Tom, Dick & Harry Organics.

ppeatfruit · 22/11/2011 12:08

Yes I think they wouldn't introduce new 'speaking' characters if there wasn't going to be quite a major story line about it. lol at the veggie organic twizzlers!!

When you think about the story of the horrid Horrobins the majority of whom we(well I ) had never heard of or actually HEARD Grin IFYKWIM

stealthsquiggle · 22/11/2011 12:14

I am loving "Tom, Dick & Harry Organics" Grin

I did learn a whole lot about the Horrobin family tree from that funeral - apart from that Clive was a bad 'un and that Susan Carter was nee Horrobin, I knew nothing else!

R4 · 22/11/2011 17:12

Me, too, stealth. I think that it was one of those times when SWs decide to re-write their characters. All I knew about the Horrobins was that they were the 'Shameless' of Ambridge before Shameless had been invented. Hence Susan's desperate, but totally understandable, social climbing to distance herself from them. (I know everyone else hates Susan but I have a soft spot for her.)
If Ivy's offspring were the feral, horrible Horrobins who everyone looks down on, why were we getting all this "good old Ivy, sorry to see her go" malarky at the funeral from the whole village.Confused

ppeatfruit · 22/11/2011 17:25

Yes I wondered about that too R4 I think it was Pat who said 'I had a lot of time for her" ????? or was it Ruth? either way we 'the listeners' were not in the know were we?

Susan's running around after her useless lummox's of father and brother annoys me (though I know it's true to life).

PigletJohn · 22/11/2011 17:28

Ivy was the "white sheep of the family" matriarch.

Bearing up bravely despite the terrible behaviour of all the men around her.

It's worth remembering that her character was developed during the "women are strong and great, men are foolish and weak" structure of the Archers. It has been toned down a bit now, but you will still find the female characters like Pat, Jill, Clarrie, Hayley, even Lillian and Jennifer, are more admirable than their menfolk

Quite unlike real life, obviously.

Northernlurker · 22/11/2011 17:52

Ivy has to be a decent character to make Susan's character understandable. There's a lot of mileage in Susan's desire to grow away from her roots.

ppeatfruit · 23/11/2011 09:38

Yes northern IKWYM about Susan but Ivy's decency doesn't seem to have rubbed off on any of the others does it?

lljkk · 23/11/2011 11:38

DH (I do family history) has distant cousins with a family profile like Ivy+her brood. Loving decent matriarch from a solid boring background, with some straightforward hardworking offspring, and others turning out to be molly-coddled useless immoral types. So to me it's quite true to life.

Ponders · 23/11/2011 16:26

The Horrobins only seem to have the one straightforward hardworking gossipy offspring though - the rest of them are all a waste of space by the sound of it (although I think Tracy works or worked at Lower Loxley? Maybe it's just the girls v the boys - maybe Ivy was one of those mothers who thinks boys are useless & does everything for them...self-fulfilling prophecy type!)

carocaro · 23/11/2011 17:10

I think we all have a Horrobin lurking in the depths of our family; I have an uncle who was in prison in the 70's for dealing in stolen truck parts in Birmingham. Been on the straight and narrow ever since!

On another note I think my DH is turning into a bit of a Brian, he's part of starting a new business and he's all wrapped up in it, talked to me the other day like I was a maid-servant as I dared to mention some trivial househouse matter. However, all was well as I clipped him round the ear about it and he apologised, after I had pretended to be Dobby from Harry Potter by bashing my head on the oven door. I told him you may be the BIG I AM out their in business land but in here it's 50-50 sweetheart and don't you forget it!