Buying a listed property that is has had non-compliant work done to it

[HouseMoveRound2]

We are in the process of buying a G2 listed property with UPVC windows that the vendor has told us we’re installed without consent. We are unlikely to get any further money knocked off the asking price - is it worth getting indemnity insurance?

@BrownTroutBluesAgain I would not assume anything but 100.% of property and cartilage being listed is not always the case. However listing details make it clear. I’d be more worried about the windows really!

TBH it's hard to get a conservation officer round now unless you are actually making an application by which point you should already know what they are likely to want or object to. The days of phoning for advice have gone in most areas

The Listed Property Owners Club have an invaluable advice line.

No insurance will not cover it. Because you have willingly bought knowing the fact the windows have been installed illegally. You are therefore accepting financial responsibility for any fines and costs accrued in correcting this or requesting applications. Insurance will not help you at all for this.

Indemnity insurance will only cover costs you could not forsee. As you have been informed and the agent will have logged that it will not cover. But continuing with the purchase your accepting the work has been done illegally and you're accepting financial responsibility for any costs accrued from it. The agent knows this by telling you so that no indemnity insurance will pay out because you knew.

I am in Bath, where a lot of listings happened in the 70’s/80’s (when the buildings were mostly covered in soot and goodness knows what DIY was done to most, assuming the council didn’t decide to demolish them). Sympathetic restorations are encouraged (so neighbours could put fancy double glazed “Georgian” sashes in because the old windows were ugly, whereas we have our elderly blown glass).

Another neighbour was allowed to completely gut their house because none of the 70’s/80’s work had been approved and the proposals were a vast improvement.

Your UPVC’s don’t last for ever so you’ll need to budget in replacements within a decade or two?

Unless you really really annoy your immediate neighbours, I expect most “hollowed out” planning departments have bigger fish to fry.

We had a grade 2 listed cottage which be purchased dor my son to live in and partly as an investment project as it needed a complete rip out. Anyway said son is a planning officer and guided us through the renovations to comply with the listed status.It really can be a mine field as the local authority can go back to you at any time if there's been a breach. We had to have permission for the pointing in lime mortar we had to provide a sample of the mortar mix and colour when it was set. We replaced the rotten windows and doors which had to be bespoke Yorkshire sliders which weren't cheap and they had to be a certain colour. All guttering was wooden again not cheap. Fences couldn't be over a certain height. You really have to check everything. We sold it last year and the buyers had an in depth survey and found something really small.( done by previous occupants probably many many years ago as the property was built in 1837. Anyway we could take an indemnity to pass on to the buyer. The policy was really cheap and the solicitor sorted it out.

hi sheepsmellnice can you remember who the policy was with?

You definitely can get listed buildings indemnity. Try isis conveyancing insurance or CLS

Thanks wittyraven

People will sell you anything - it doesn’t mean you will be able to actually claim on it if it’s needed….

And it won’t pay out for known about upvc windows!

It probably depends on the sort of person you are. My solicitor pointed out that some work including windows had been done without consent, and I asked her what it meant for us. I agreed that we'd go ahead if the vendor remedied it, but the sale stalled and someone else came right in and bought it.
I am risk averse, presumably they are not.
The non-consented works were very nice and improved the house and are still in place 8 years later.

Retired planner here. My experience was gained by working for 4 different local authorities, rural, city and suburban over 35 years. I think if you purchase this property you will have to accept responsibility for replacement for all illegal works should the Council proceed to enforce There is no time limitation on enforcement and undertaking work on a listed building without Listed Building Consent is a criminal act. Liability rests with the owner. My advice would be to check what exactly will be covered by the insurance. Would it cover you for the cost of replacement.? If not you are taking a risk.

I know you said LBC was applied for the garage and the planning officer did not comment on the windows, garages and extensions are usually dealt with by junior planners. If you want to apply to convert the garage you will need to apply for LBC and planning permission. This would involve a visit by another planning officer. You also can't rule out someone reporting the breach to the planning department. For example another householder whose application for replacement windows is turned down , may question why those of your building were approved.

You also need to take into account difficulties you may encounter should you wish to sell the property sometime in the future.

My advice is proceed with caution and be aware of the potential risks.

Appreciate your very considered reply jackstrawscastle

This is what Google said (clearly it depends how you ask the question!)

No, you usually cannot buy valid indemnity insurance if you already know about the unauthorised works. Indemnity insurance is designed to protect against undiscovered or historic breaches. If you have actual knowledge of the work, the policy is likely to be invalidated.

@JackStrawsCastle You insure for unforeseen events. You cannot insure for what you already know about! Insurance simply doesn’t work like that. It’s like not insuring your car. It’s then stolen so you decide to take out insurance and claim! It’s clearly fraudulent!