Is this house worth the price? What do you think about our plans to update/extend it?

[GoldOnyx]

Hi all, DP and I have been looking to buy in south London.

The overall plan has been to buy somewhere that’s convenient for both our workplaces and close to a station.

Also, rather than paying a premium for a high spec renovated place, we’ve been looking for somewhere that needs a bit of work and updating. We’re also looking for somewhere that has scope to extend, as we’re hoping to start a family at some point - not very soon-ish, but perhaps in next 3-5 years ish, and see ourselves settled in the house long term.

We recently went to view a house in south London that we think ticks these boxes:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/156280841

We’ve booked in to do a second viewing soon, but I’d be keen to know what you think of the house and whether you think it’s worth the asking price. Judging by comparisons to other houses of a similar size in its street, it seems a bit overpriced to me, and it’s already been reduced once (although I don’t know what the original price was),

We think the house needs a bit of work and we want to extend it up and out (both possible).

In terms of priority order, we’re thinking: do a downstairs extension and knock through the wall between the kitchen and diner to make it a large kitchen/dining space and also put in a utility room, remove the paving slabs in the garden and lay turf on it and extend into the loft to create an extra bedroom and en-suite, or perhaps two extra bedrooms, and potentially also put a downstairs loo in under the stairs. I know extensions cost an absolute bomb but we have been saving up for that and will continue to save over the next couple of years as we get through the work on the house that needs doing.

We both take public transport/cycle everywhere, which we would continue to do, but later down the line, if we get a car or two, we may consider converting the front yard into a driveway - although it does look quite narrow.

Thanks very much all.

That’s a better house but one reason it’s cheaper is due to the CR postcode and the distance from transport.

Your right I dont know the area. But the street is tree lined and this is a much more achievable project than extending. OP could take this step by step, room by room. Not have to borrow or leverage mortgage. Already have the plumbing in roughly the right place.

Maybe make it a 5 year house and flip it frugally but well opposed a 10 year family home if you really want to live in the other postcode.

Purely based on the maths
Ive calculated the £/m2 ( can’t sleep and I’m waiting for more snow 😀) of all those for sale in that road
They are
£5740 up for £700,000 4bed
£4820 up for £675,000 4bed
£7140 up for £650,000 3bed
£6685 that’s the one you’re looking at OP so 3bed

just looking at this road I’d say the house is a reasonable price.
If you decide to extend keep an eye on how much you’re spending in case you go over the £/m2 if you’re not planning on staying long.

Thanks so much all, and @Craftymam too for posting that other link.

We feel deflated, to be completely honest. We’ve been looking for about 3 years now for somewhere to buy and haven’t yet settled on anything mainly due to the uncertainty around interest rates and mortgages that’s been happening for the last couple of years.

We’re very keen to buy somewhere, especially in light of the stamp duty increase from 1 April.

The main thing is we’d like to buy a good house we like with a reasonable commute - up to 45-50 mins - to Westminster (where we both work), so we thought Streatham was a good area to focus on. We both like the area.

We thought it had affordable opportunities available that we could do up as we went, but it seems like the houses available are all either already done up and out of our price range or they’re in our price range and need work but we won’t get a good return on them.

Of course, we want to live in the property and enjoy it, as it’ll be our home. However, it still feels massively disheartening to update a place and put your mark on it and wonder if you’ll recoup the money you put in or even make it back.

I’d be really grateful for any advice anyone can offer please.

If you extend outwards at ground floor you are limiting your desirability as a family home. A 7m long garden is very small for a family
So Personally I wouldn’t bother

Id knock through to make a kitchen/dining/ family space at the rear and put in bifold doors to the garden
I would put wooden double doors between the front living area and the kitchen dinner. These days more people are wanting a separate space. The doors (which were traditional at one time in older properties ) allow you to open it up or close it off.
Have you checked the height under the stairs to see if you can get in a WC, remember you’ll need to get the waste pipe out at the rear of the kitchen cupboards ( suggest maserator) and you’ll need to vent.
Given the slope of the roofs locally I think you’ll struggle to get in two bedrooms and tbh with a small garden and not a huge amount of living space I think I’d stick to 4beds max. You won’t see any return imo going for more beds.

Remember to watch your budget against sale of £/m2

The road next door has one for 550. 35k cheaper. Same house sqft. Already has the driveway.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/155771738#/?channel=RESBUY

Our philosophy has always been figure out how much work and upheaval you are willing to suffer. Because it is suffering!

Thats a range through from decorating; to new kitchens and bathrooms; to full on back to brick renovations (rewire, replumb, replaster etc.) to knocking down the exterior walls of your house to build extensions.

Once you decide your level of suffering; pick a house which reflects this in conditions and price. If you’re going to Reno and extend then it makes no sense to pick one in a slightly better condition for 35k more. You buy the worse one you can.

I would say if it’s your first home I would get the one which doesn’t require major building work. Get a turd you can aesthetically polish and do the kitchens and bathrooms. Then sell and do bigger Reno on rung 2 of the ladder.

If the stamp duty amount for rung 2 puts you off. Then literally get the biggest shittest house you can and live in squalor for 5 years whilst you scrabble round doing it up.

Both good options imo. Goodluck

OP if you’re looking to beat the stamp duty increase can I suggest

• you chose a conveyancer that works fast
• you absolutely insist that the fraud checks done on you and anyone in your chain gets them done at the same time as the searches. They usually do fraud checks after but they delay everything. Trust me, our buyers have been at the b….y fraud checks only for 6 weeks now.

ps. If you don’t find somewhere super quick you won’t be done by 1st April, on average conveyancing takes 12 weeks ( it has even become longer now with all the fraud checks ). I’d look for something chain free if you want it quick

Thanks Craftymam! I’ve checked out the house you’ve linked to and I think it may be on for cheaper because it’s on a busier road, as it looks to me like it’s on a main road from the map and from my knowledge of Streatham. I’d rather go for a quieter road than a main road both for enjoyment of the house but also because I feel like houses in quieter streets hold their value better.

This is super super helpful, thank you. The two main bedrooms are already a good size - both double. So I think having those, and being able to add to them with a double bedroom and ensuite bathroom in the loft extension, makes sense, so having 2 bathrooms in the house and keeping the smallest bedroom for a home office, as lots of people now split their time between WFH and the office.

I’m not sure having a downstairs loo (as per my original suggestion) is necessary or worth it - ultimately it’s just extra cost to us and there would already be two toilets in the house. I think I’d put in a downstairs loo only if we couldn’t put a loo in the loft extension.

I’m hoping we can maybe do something similar to what the homeowners have done in another house in a parallel road (as per the attached floor plan).

We actually went to see the house shown in the
attached floor plan and really liked it, but it was on at £750k, so waaaay over our budget, although, thinking about it now, I’m glad we went to see it for comparison purposes and inspiration.

I wasn’t sure about the walk in wardrobe though. It pretty much takes up the whole of the smallest bedroom on the first floor. Whilst many people want a walk in wardrobe (myself included), it felt like a strange thing to put in a house where space is already at a premium and you could have another use for the space like making it a study, which I think would have wider appeal and usefulness. We couldn’t afford that house, but if we could have, I would have been put off by that room, i think, and the thought of the costs of converting it into another use.

I used to live in SW16. That's a bargain of a price! My brother in law owns a two bed flat there and it's almost that price.

I think it's a nice house and you don't need to get validation from other people because you have done a lot of research it seems and thought about all sorts of things from schools to nice roads to transport links - these are things that most people look for in houses. The house would benefit from updating but at the same time the condition isn't too bad so you could live there easily. You have 2 outstanding local primary schools within half a mile and seeing as you won't have children for several years, I wouldn't care about finding somewhere with an outstanding secondary school at this stage.

Where I agree with others is that the footprint of the house is too small to aim for 5 bedrooms. I would aim for 4 bedrooms rather than try to cram too many in and create problems in other areas. A house should be well balanced and this house would be well balanced at 3/4 bedrooms but not at 5, in my opinion.

I would put in a downstairs loo if you possibly can. You will understand why when you have a toddler that is learning to toilet. It's also handy if guests don't have to go upstairs (especially if it's messy up there!). Plus it's something many buyers expect to see in a 4 bed house so it will help with resale.

We live a bit further down from Streatham (on the Colliers Wood side of Mitcham) in a similar size and layout house. I also commute to Westminster. We did a loft conversion - 1 bed plus shower room in 2022 and it cost £90k once you took all the extras into consideration and eg getting a decorator for the final touches if you dont want to do that yourself. I'd say you are probably looking at the same again for the downstairs works you want. We are not going to do a downstairs extension for that reason, but instead reorganise the downstairs internal walls to have a kitchen / diner plus separate living room maybe with double doors between them to either open up or close off. Hoping to do that for £50k. We managed it by living in the house for 5yrs before starting work then funding it by taking £50k out of the equity we'd built up + the rest savings. But obviously you'd have to be happy living in it whilst you save up. We basically moved in, slapped white paint everywhere and waited it out. We've managed without a downstairs loo since we have two toilets with the loft one - the only time I've missed it is when potty training! But we just have a potty in the corner downstairs.

Don't assume that you can convert the driveway. Not sure about Lambeth, but in Merton there is a rule that the front garden needs to be 4.3m in length to be converted and lots of the ones near us don't meet that criteria. It's caught out quite a few of our neighbours who moved in planning to convert the front garden and then found they cant.

A pp mentioned secondary schools. Do you think you'll want to stay in London when your future potential DC are around secondary school age? There is a lot of movement in London around year 3, when people move to be nearer preferred secondaries or further out for a bigger place. Especially if you are Civil Servants, with all the movement of depts out of London, lots of my colleagues have taken the opportunity to move elsewhere in preparation for secondary age. Absolutely have an eye on nearby secondaries but if you get 10years out of a house before needing to move, I also think that isn't a bad length of time to be settled now. Schools can change a lot in a decade.

I would knock through the kitchen to the dining room and put in doors to the garden on the dining room side and a long window on the kitchen side to give more room for cupboards and counter. Consider Crittal style doors between the living room & kitchen diner for light or solid pocket doors as these take up the least floor space and give you more flexibility about where to put furniture. Tiny guest loo under the stairs as it saves having to tidy the upstairs and family bathroom for guests. One bed loft conversion plus bathroom/en suite is fine. Add polished, more modern decor and you have a pretty perfect family house with a good garden. I love having a stacked washing machine/dryer in a cupboard on the upstairs landing if you can steal a bit of space as it keeps laundry out of the kitchen and closer to bedrooms and bathrooms where clothes are removed/put on and stored. So much more convenient and saves hauling laundry up and down stairs.

I think it’s a good house and decent value. I also would not do a downstairs extension, but just knock through between kitchen and dining room, and separate off the living room. Put in a downstairs loo if you can. I’d prioritise that over a loft extension.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145073357#/?channel=RES_BUY

How about this property which has 4 bedrooms & the potential to turn the garage into another room. This is £25k more than the house you posted but still cheaper than doing a full extension.

Bromley is well connected to most mainline London stations and the schools are good.

I think it's a nice house and I like the area. I personally wouldn't do a lot of work on a house that I knew I wasn't going to live in forever. But if you do, I don't think you'll necessarily lose the box room to the stairs - the house I had didn't, the top flight of stairs was just slightly steeper than the first flight.

The neighbor with the extension may have paid half the price for the house and half the price for the extension than it would cost now. I’m with the others that say internal work only, knock through, new kitchen, downstairs toilet. If you are not doing it yourself, tens of thousands to spend already.

We’re very keen to buy somewhere, especially in light of the stamp duty increase from 1 April.
The main thing is we’d like to buy a good house we like with a reasonable commute - up to 45-50 mins - to Westminster (where we both work), so we thought Streatham was a good area to focus on. We both like the area.

I forgot about the stamp duty changes, I wonder if that will depress prices a bit. The economy isn’t in a great place & more fixes will end this year so I would try and wait tbh although appreciate it’s frustrating. Some parts of Streatham are great, but it’s quite big and varied. Streatham Vale isn’t so nice hence a lot cheaper.

What about closer to Tooting rail?

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/156252578#/?channel=RES_BUY

What areas have you looked at? Have you consider somewhere like New Malden? More scope for building equity (recently named ST best places to live), a family member bought there a few yrs ago and I didn’t really know it but have visited lots now & like it. Some great restaurants.

Talk to a builder. You might not lose any of the box room for stairs, we didn't have to. I agree with others that loft extension is more worthwhile than rear extension. Just do internal changes to make kitchen diner and separate front room (instead of curtain) and that'll be better. Rear extension will cost too much and not gain you much as garden so small.

I've lived near there and primary schools are good. Secondary is, as op says, the Graveney gamble or Catholic, or a bus up to Norwood, which isn't a dealbreaker. Lots of families live in Streatham Vale so it's not putting anyone off moving there.

I think you could offer lower, 550 maybe, and see what happens, take it from there. Very much doubt you'd get anything Victorian for a similar price so while those are of course bigger and nicer this is what you get in your budget. Could be worth looking around Norwood Junction area as that's well connected and similar price bracket, my friend got a doer upper there for less but it did need more doing up. But this isn't a bad buy if you can wangle it a bit cheaper and put your stamp on it over time. Good luck!

Hello @GoldOnyx ,
How flexible are you with the location? I understand you need to be close to your and partner's workplace / station. I ask because with your budget you could get so much more in south London e.g. in Welling, Bexley, Sidcup and surrounding areas. With all the extensions you're planning perhaps a you might need something with a bigger garden where you could knock through kitchen and dining room and then out into the back. If you do that on this property you won't have much garden left and if you're planning to have a family you'll need a decent sized garden. Have a look at this for example https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/69093981/?search_identifier=ae547f3b193f31666a9065202bf3ebff5b8541d795095bef224b5516c87db52d

I'm also thinking at 585K you may not be able to recoup your investment after all the work you propose for long time.

I personally am currently purchasing a similar property in one of the areas I listed above, it's just about 10mins walk from the train station that travels along the main stations in London. It's got a massive garden with huge potential to extend as I have plans to extend just like you which is perfect especially as i also have a toddler. The area also has a number of good primary and grammar schools so you'd be sorted in that regard.

In my option I would say it's a lot of money for not a lot of house or garden so if you're flexible on location then you could get so much better ...Good luck

We feel deflated, to be completely honest. We’ve been looking for about 3 years now for somewhere to buy and haven’t yet settled on anything mainly due to the uncertainty around interest rates and mortgages that’s been happening for the last couple of years.

Okay well if you've been looking so long then you know what's out there and what you want so crack on and make an offer. Course there are pros and cons and other houses with their pros and cons but that could go on indefinitely. You like this, it ticks a lot of boxes, you're going to live in it not primarily try to flip it, so get on to the next stage with it and start living in your new house this summer rather than still be looking for that elusive ideal.

Don't underestimate how stressful it is doing major work while living in the house.

I'm not really sure why you would need to extend it so much, with only the two of you it makes far more sense just to live in it for a while and pay down the mortgage ready for when you need to take the next step up the ladder you'll have built equity and have savings too. Get the bigger house when you actually need it. You could spend £200k on all those extensions or in a few years you could have 200k to put towards a bigger house which is already done in a better area.

If you extend out the back you'll be left with barely any garden which means families will be put off. Who is going to buy a 4/5 bed with a tiny scrap of garden?

I haven't read all the posts on here but I agree with @Bungrung here and in his/ her others posts.

It's highly unlikely that you would beat the SDLT threshold now but this could be to your advantage. As per the quotes post, I think the higher tax will lower prices. It would be totally counter productive to rush into buying and over paying for this reason.
It's also unlikely that you will make a real profit (ex inflation) on most property in the UK now, particularly in most parts of London.

By the way, you mentioned that the house had been reduced previously. If you use the Property log extension on google chrome, you can see that there was a previous listing with the same agent in April 24 at 600k. They then reduced to OIEO 575k (ie lower than the current asking price). They have then listed again at the end of December 24 and managed to make it appear that this is a reduction, when they have actually raised the price. I don't think it's worth the asking price and I guess potential buyers agreed because it didn't sell despite being on the market for ages.

We’d love to buy in New Malden but unfortunately it’s out of our price range.

We’d like to be close to a station and to also have access to other good transport links (e.g. buses), and to be close to NM station, we’d be looking at getting a house that’s at least £650k, which we can’t afford. Also, NM is in zone 4, which means we’d need to pay higher monthly costs for travelling (we both work in zone 1 and currently rent in zone 4, and are looking to buy in zone 3 if possible).

What appealed about Streatham is that it’s not very far out - it’s probably as central as we can get for our budget. It’s in zone 3 and very well connected, and location is something we’d like to prioritise in a property. I think location and easy access to a variety of quick transport links is a good indicator of whether a property will hold its value and it will mean we’ll enjoy living there too.