Is this house worth the price? What do you think about our plans to update/extend it?

[GoldOnyx]

Hi all, DP and I have been looking to buy in south London.

The overall plan has been to buy somewhere that’s convenient for both our workplaces and close to a station.

Also, rather than paying a premium for a high spec renovated place, we’ve been looking for somewhere that needs a bit of work and updating. We’re also looking for somewhere that has scope to extend, as we’re hoping to start a family at some point - not very soon-ish, but perhaps in next 3-5 years ish, and see ourselves settled in the house long term.

We recently went to view a house in south London that we think ticks these boxes:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/156280841

We’ve booked in to do a second viewing soon, but I’d be keen to know what you think of the house and whether you think it’s worth the asking price. Judging by comparisons to other houses of a similar size in its street, it seems a bit overpriced to me, and it’s already been reduced once (although I don’t know what the original price was),

We think the house needs a bit of work and we want to extend it up and out (both possible).

In terms of priority order, we’re thinking: do a downstairs extension and knock through the wall between the kitchen and diner to make it a large kitchen/dining space and also put in a utility room, remove the paving slabs in the garden and lay turf on it and extend into the loft to create an extra bedroom and en-suite, or perhaps two extra bedrooms, and potentially also put a downstairs loo in under the stairs. I know extensions cost an absolute bomb but we have been saving up for that and will continue to save over the next couple of years as we get through the work on the house that needs doing.

We both take public transport/cycle everywhere, which we would continue to do, but later down the line, if we get a car or two, we may consider converting the front yard into a driveway - although it does look quite narrow.

Thanks very much all.

I think you're overthinking this. You're first time buyers with no family yet and you're trying to find a house that you can afford and suits your life now that will also transform into something you imagine you might want/need years in the future and also be an investment. But these things are pretty impossible to have all at once. If you want to buy a long-term home that will grow with you as you have a family, stop asking whether you can make money on it, just ask yourself if it's got the right potential and feels like a place you can make yourself happy in now and in the long term.

I agree that the relatively small footprint (and being a mid-terrace) does give limited expansion options, and limits the potential for adding value because you'll always be compromising something to do the extension (losing a box room to fit stairs in, making garden v small to get extension etc). However having a front garden big enough to make into off-road parking strikes me as something hugely valuable to have in London. There's also relatively simple improvements that could be made even without extending - kitchen is dated and tiny and downstairs could be reconfigured into a kitchen/diner and separate living room. Front looks quite ugly and could be improved.The 2 main bedrooms are really decent sized. It sounds like you really like the location. If all of those things mean you can make it a really nice house for you now, then why start looking in areas that you don't like at much just so you can potentially save up and put in an extension years in the future?

I have to say it doesn’t currently have a lot of kerb appeal, nor do the neighbouring properties which haven’t been enhanced with their various renovations. I’d think carefully about what you did as vs roads of more character properties there maybe a lower ceiling price that future buyers would pay. If you’re staying for a long time that’s of less importance, but this house design seems to have less potential than a home with a larger roof space for loft conversion and bigger family friendly garden etc.

Don’t rush, definitely find somewhere that gives all the potential you need !

@GoldOnyx is the roof in good order? Will it need windows replacing and re-wiring? These could add to the costs.

Have you considering Plumstead or welling/Bexleyheath areas

I’m sorry to say this, but you’re 10 years too late to think you can property develop on the side. With the cost of extending now out weighing the cost of moving, your best bet is to move to a cheaper area and find a decent house that only needs cosmetic updates. Treat it as a home. Over time, like anyone, your house will increase, but don’t bank on having a big payout, unless you’re willing to move out of London, at which time your £600k or so will go much further.

Property used to be an easy way of making money, I think you’re finding now that this just isn’t the case.

Im in Edinburgh so very different prices but we had a really similar house. Talked about extending into the loft but we'd have to lose the smallest bedroom for stairs. Talked about a downstairs loo extension with a utility room off the back but after much work and a lot of money it turned out the plumbing wouldn't work out so we had to scrap it. Everything was complicated and expensive and it was much cheaper to move house. We moved in 2021 (we have 2 kids now) and don't regret it. It was a great starter house though!

I'd consider bidding 'if' you'd be happy to live in it as is and figure it out as you go along. Maybe it's enough space once you're there? Maybe you won't have kids right away? Maybe you'll get enough equity in that you can move in a few years? Maybe interest rates will drop... or rise. Basically there's a lot of mystery, particularly right now, so I'd think about it as its own thing instead of all sorts of projects that might not be feasible.

As a house it looks like a lovely layout and we were really happy in similar until we had lockdown in it with 2 kids (we are also immigrants so have family to stay for weeks and weeks a year)

We paid for location - figured we could compromise on plenty in a house but if we lived somewhere we didn't like we couldn't fix that. I hate a long commute!

I'd offer £535 like the one that just sold.

Have to say that prices generally seems incredibly good value compared to other zone 3 areas, albeit it has no tube.

(Plea from a design perspective - please replace the tacky faux bow window and porch).

Also, getting good quality, stylish metal or wood windows is really worthwhile in terms of increasing the value of the house to a certain demographic.

Very much agree with @Tupster above! You've been (literally) around the houses for 3 years. You've found one you like, make an offer. I think 525 is extremely unlikely to fly, but you might get it for between 550-575 and it's liveable in so you can move in and make decisions on the work as you go. Better to get moving and on with the next phase of your lives than endlessly looking at other places which will all have their own drawbacks as time and rent ticks away.

Building work is so expensive at the moment that I would always be inclined to double what you think it will cost. I think it’s unheard of that doing the work ever makes you a profit unless you are in the industry / can do a lot yourself. More likely you’ll recoup what you spent but no more, so it’s whether you’re doing the work just to make it somewhere you’d like to live in the short term = not worth the stress if a 5-7 year house, maybe worth it it a 10+ house

That house is pretty grotty and not beautiful enough for me to want to invest in personally; but I appreciate for your budget it may be slim pickings in that area.

Totally agree with this.

I guess I'm just struggling with why you feel so strongly that you need a loft conversion that you've been looking for the perfect house for 3 years. It's plenty big enough for 2 people as it is, even if you later add a couple of kids - millions of people have successfully raised their families in houses smaller than that one - the loft conversion feels pretty arbitrary if it's not a house you want to be in long term. If it's to add value to the house, i don't think the amount of value you'll add will stack up against the cost and the impact it'll have on your life but then i don't know you.

I live in a similar, small terraced house to that and we've thought about converting and extending but ultimately houses like this are what they are - they will always be a small house with a loft conversion that have a top value. We decided against extending up or out. The risk (so many cowboy builders around) and cost involved don't stack up against our need (not want!) for more space.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/155268218

This seems a better buy?

The other place you could look at is Norbury which is just down the road. Stay close to the Woodmansterne school end as I understand that there aren't a lot of great school options elsewhere in Norbury.

The property at this development is also very nice. New build (I guess about 10 years old). I have some friends who live very happily in this development.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/155582426#/?channel=RES_BUY

Undoubtedly, but it's also hugely over budget.

Thanks for posting this! It looks like a beautiful house, but we can’t afford the asking price at all. I’ve saved it on Rightmove and will see if they drop the price further over the next couple of months. I can see they’ve reduced the price already, although not sure by how much, but it’s impossible to tell if it’ll be reduced further.

Thanks! The development looks lovely and it looks like it’s got good transport links. I am a bit worried about the line in the ad about the sellers wanting a quick sale and the pictures in the ad of the external structure, as it looks like to me like the properties are all built out of wood, and they’re all connected or next to each other, which I feel is a massive fire risk.

It's nearly 200k more expensive! Of course it's better.

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/155582426#/?channel=RES_BUY

This is what I would call no man’s land though…

The one I posted on Seely road isn’t far from @Muthaofcats which is lovely.

How much do you think OP would need to spend to get that dump in streatham anywhere close though? Gone are the days of a big renovation costing only 100k, esp in south London. It all adds up and that needs new everything, even if you didn’t extend, it’s going to cost you. And it’s not a pretty house and never will be so arguably not worth trying to polish a turd. Victorian / period houses are much more sought after in London than more modern.

It's not a dump. It's a perfectly normal mid terrace house.

Hi all.

We’ve gone back to the drawing board quite a bit and had a rethink. We just feel quite disheartened about that house I linked to here - I don’t think we can improve it much and I am so worried about putting a lot of money into it and feeling miserable about living there. We really want to avoid rushing into buying somewhere and then regretting it.

We’ve now had a look at a couple other places, including New Cross. Neither of us has lived there or visited before, so it’s new to both of us.

A few years ago, I used to live in Camberwell, which is a bit further north, and liked it. New Cross seems pretty central and with lots of good transport links, and I’ve heard anecdotally from colleagues and friends that it’s becoming a more popular to consider. One of my colleagues has just recently moved there and is renting a place and likes it.

On the plus side, it looks like it’s very well connected. On the negative side, I’ve heard it is a bit dodgy and not very safe. If anyone on here knows New Cross, I’d be grateful for your thoughts please. Thanks!

Victorian / period houses are much more sought after in London than more modern.

Wonder if utilities prices & renovation costs will change this in the future? I like older houses but I would much prefer to live in a wide house as opposed to long and narrow. I’m not there yet!

dont know much about New Cross but definitely hipper than Streatham Vale.