Massive Property headache - need hand hold

[propertydisaster]

So we bought a property back in January in our dream area. It is very much a doer upper.

just some back ground we’ve come back via different part of world and UK and have owned and renovated 3 lovely properties previously.

This is a very popular and pricey area we accepted we were going to have to make sacrifices and that the majority (4 yrs I’ve been keeping my eye on this market now so have insight) of properties that come up in our price band have been owned by elderly individuals and are in various states of needing updating.

We took a hit on the type of house (period and size/footprint) and immediate loc/plot (house backs onto primary school and on bus route, plus much smaller garden than would have liked) to be where we wanted to be and have what we hoped would be the money to renovate and make it really lovely/nicely speced. We pretty much immediately had to can any plans of even a small extension. No really biggie got over quickly. We really don’t want a massive house.

However it has taken us 8 months nearly of our architects dragging their heels and builders taking ages to quote to finally get the quotes back (5 in total) way way over, 50% over what the architects initially said (spec has not changed even they’re surprised). We have got the extra money together (parents) but there is no contingency.

DH has just had the conversation with me today that he thinks we should pull out. And sell cut our losses. I mean what would this even mean financially??

I can’t even cope, on some level I know he is right, this was never intended to be the forever but we wanted something really nice, for next 6-8 yrs. like I said we are in our 40’s with kids and have worked hard, and I know I know we’re lucky than most etc, but that’s not helpful in reality.

We’ve looked at de-specing but just feels like too much of a stop gap then and starting a the bottom, and even then it is objectively still an awful lot of money and emotional effort and time to be spending that on something that wasn’t really what we wanted.

As well things I was prepared to ignore and hopefully in time forget about (bus route school etc) for the original discussed figures felt doable, at this level it feels like a deal breaker.

we are in a rental and it is bloody awful, similar to the house we bought as in fully pensioner, plus v cold, damp, boiler on blink needs updating. The thought of been here any longer with no end in sight is pushing me over the edge. Nice rental properties are like hens teeth.

Just been to look at new build it goes against my very core, our previous houses have been such a reflection of us and what we love and have been laboured over, I am depressed at the thought of having something very likely poorly constructed and Homogenous - but I know I’m being a bit of a div.

What the heck do we do.

Crossed post with you OP. I apologise, I had misunderstood your current finances.

Regardless, there's no getting away from the fact that you've needlessly rented for the past 9 months.

I'd suggest you swallow your pride and move into the house. Get a load of inoffensive paint and do up every room as cheaply as possible. The either choose whether you can stand to live in it long term, or put the house on the market at a quick sale price.

@propertydisaster I sympathise, we're in the same boat. Initially told we could do everything for £120 k including the extension and refurb. Having got planning and building regs it's coming in at almost £100 k more now.

I think I get what you mean. You don't want to waste your money and inheritance by overspeccing a house to the extent that if you sell you won't get it back. We're making a similar evaluation. But there are also some compromises with the house which mean it won't necessarily be a longer term house for you.

No real advice - we've decided to go for it and borrow the extra 😬 But it does worry me that we might be spending more than the house is worth. However the 'bones' of the house are nice - it's a period house with big bays and some nice features. And it's on one of our preferred roads.

If I were you I'd paint some of the rooms and move in. Maybe replace a bathroom so you've a nice bathroom also. And then see if I could live with the bus route / school over the next 2-3 months and see if they're dealbreakers for you. If they are, don't do the work. If you can live with them, see how much of the work you a was any to do. You won't know how much they'll bother you until you move in and live with it

Look, if you don't think the 5 star treatment is viable anymore - and you do seem decided that it isn't - then your options are simple:

1. Stay in the rental, sell the house untouched, buy something better.
2. Stay in the rental, do the house up superficially and put it back on the market very promptly then buy something better
3. Move in, do it up superficially and sell it sooner rather than later.
4. Move in and make the best of it, do it up gradually and sell in a few years.

Unless you win the lottery, that's basically it. If you can't decide what the best option is, then decide what you think would be worst and work backwards. It doesn't really matter which one you pick. The only wrong choice is to carry on doing nothing.

You've blagged a refurb budget out of your parents that's not far short of my entire purchase budget, so try to buck up a bit, for goodness sake. You're in an exceptionally privileged position and you're acting like God farted in your face.

@propertydisaster I think you should spend maybe 25 - 35k OP on professional decorating, cheap but good looking kitchen, new bathroom(s) , new carpets etc

Move in and funk it up a bit , so it looks of this century - see what you think- no extensions, no walls down- if it's still not doing it for you- assess the situation and either flip it and get something better suited or accept you need to look at other locations or a new build or something that really doesn't need 180k to be an ideal home.

We would all like amazing houses in ideal areas but budget does have to be in the equation and at the moment many builders and tradesmen in general are totally taking the piss it seems- although I would ditch the rental to help balance the cost of a quick move again!!

Just sell it.
You don't like any of the options but at least your DH knows what he wants to do, and it's as good as any option you have.

What state is it actually in? Is it just tired decor, bathroom and tiny kitchen or is it rewiring, new plumbing and heating, roof repairs etc as well?

We were in similar position - bought house in very poor condition from elderly vendor. Lived in rental. But we didn't involve an architect - used a structural engineer for the plans and calculations needed for moving several walls. That cost a few £100. Then used a builder for the detailed quote and the actual work. We have done the majority of what we planned as we didn't want the disruption of new floors (and UFH) after moving in. The house is safe and watertight and we've done enough for WFH to happen and child to be safe and will do more when we can afford it.

It sounds like you maybe can't afford the area you want to live in? We've compromised. The houses we loved in the area were about £700k outside our budget(!) so were never going to be feasible. We chose location over other things so our house isn't what we originally wanted and definitely doesn't have nice 'bones' but now we're in it we're really reaping the benefits of living in this location in terms of community, life being easier etc. And I've grown attached to the house and it's working well for us.

I am getting what your saying.

In design and build Theres 3 things. Time, money and quality. It’s a triangle. You can easily take away one. At a push if you are really experienced and know what your doing can get away with 2. But you can’t have all 3. You can never ever have all 3.

You have said that times a no for you. You want it done now and ready.

So you are umming and ahhing about which of the other two you can cut. Spend the money or reduce the spec/scope.

Thats not an all or nothing decision. You can make a compromise there. People on this thread can only help if you say exactly what needs doing in the house.

For example we are doing full Reno. We have no money left but need a kitchen NOW. We want it high spec, so we are doing handmade cabinetry from kitchens of christchurch, bought on sale at 50% off, and getting them at the widest drawer dimension (which is no extra cost as handmade), so have cut our cabinetry units considerably and again at half price - the price is about a third of what it would have cost from Devol. We are focusing on things which are harder to change later like floor. Potentially getting a place holder worktop and cheaper hardware taps and handles/lights as place holders temporarily. Forgoing the island until later and planning freestanding one at a later date.

There’s ways round what your trying to do which would make everything liveable and with a chunk of money left over from a sum like that in good investment would be able to pay for bits and pieces. Kind of like a house improvement endowment.

I have a pretty good idea that I know exactly where in St Andrews you are talking about and if so, I think you are rather over-egging the bus route worry - it is a very quiet street with a tiny local bus pootling up it infrequently. Also, you will get glorious afternoon sunshine at the back of your house (over the top of the low rise, rather lovely, primary school!) It is a great area and one not suffering from being over run by student rentals, which you’ll know is the concern in St A. You’ve bagged a house in a great part of St A, that CAN be made nice! You don’t need to knock it down and no build a McMansion like most of your new neighbours ;)
I imagine it’s the DW estate you’ve looked at…..these are £££££ and very squeezed tight together, with building work phases due to continue for many years. It’s also in a bit of a low frost zone that I would be concerned about, depending where on site you’d be.
Lots of builders price for St A, but try some of the smaller Kirkcaldy/ Glenrothes ones with good reputations and I think you’ll get your quotes down substantially. If you’re not putting money in the ground with an extension, you’ll have much more flexibility.
I hope you can find a way to love your new house….maybe actually living in it for a bit will help you get a feel for it’s potential?

Well what to say? If you are adamant you want a bargain but aren't prepared to move in and do it up then you have to cough up and pay. Building costs have sky rocketed ( would have been cheaper without Brexit as more polish builders) but hey ho. New houses tend to be smaller and in less well established neighbourhoods. Swings and roundabouts.

Not having a 'boot room' and a utility isn't a 'disaster' FFS. The poster who said it's like taking the bus because you don't like the colour of your car is right.

Absolutely this.

You’ve clearly decided it’s not worth the money so just decide how and when you’re going to sell it - but for heaven’s sake decide quickly, and stop pissing unnecessary money away on a rental!!

Also, to knock down a couple of walls, stick in a kitchen and redecorate, those quotes sound ridiculously high.

Exactly this.

To be very blunt op you are being very precious and wasting money each month because you don’t like the wallpaper. In this time you could have been there every weekend and got it sorted and saved money.

There are currently three rental properties in the whole of St Andrews, so you are also depriving other people from having a home because you want two.

They don't want a boot room, utility room and a room for washing, just a roof over their head.

I am sure they will be happy to 'live with an ironing board in the bedroom.'

Stop being so horribly entitled and check your privilege.

I’m a ‘pensioner’ and my house is not horrifically beige. I saw plenty of badly maintained, badly decorated, tasteless, uninspiring houses belonging to people under sixty when we were looking at houses before we bought our current one (they were mainly grey - fests, though, not ‘beige’, so perhaps they would have been acceptable to your delicate decorative antenna).

Please, please stop with the lazy stereotypes. If you like I’ll send you a colour chart and lend you a paintbrush.

@SpidersAreShitheads sorry there’s more than just that, the boiler/heating and radiators are borderline okay so obviously better to do now than once you’ve done all that work. We wanted something that was warm and efficient the current plumbing radiator set up is not.

Also includes new windows/doors, double glazing was put in early 90’s and 3 are now misting. External doors are original 50’d single glazed - poor noise and heat insulation.

Also includes fitting two bathrooms and converting the garage so that it was a usable space other than just storage. The plan was to divide this into the utility, boot room and laundry area.

@MoiraRosesBaybay im not sure people are getting it, we bought it to fully renovate, we didn’t buy it and then decide, that was the plan even before proceeding with the sale.

We have done two full renos we knew that we did not want to live through another, we talked trough time scales with a couple of builders and architects pre proceeding with the sale and worked out the time scales and that this would be doable (even adding in some contingency time) to keep the rental on whilst the work was done in one go - this was always the intention, we couldn’t risk just moving out when the work started as it’s a tourist area so could end up with an Airbnb at 3-4k a month depending what was available for the duration of the project.

part of the problem has been the fact that at every single stage the architects have taken twice as long - we’ll come back to you tomorrow always ended up being day 3/4 things that were supposed to take 2 weeks took a month things that they said would take 2-3 weeks for them to come back to us took 6 weeks and so it went on.

@MoiraRosesBaybay also We do not have the type of jobs and childcare commitments that would allow us to be there on a weekend - hence planing it the way we did, we’re not footloose and fancy free 20 yo working 9-5 Mon to Fri.

I think people's point is despite all the downsides of the property it does sound liveable. So your main problem is you are spending money on two houses for no real reason.

You can live with rennovations - plenty of people have no choice. We lived in a two bed flat whilst the bathroom was being totally redone - that mean four weeks of using a toilet that was just a pan and strip washing in the kitchen (and the occasional gym shower). It wasn't great (especially the week where the bathroom had no door) but we cracked on with it as there was no way we could afford to do the bathroom and pay for a hotel/short term rental.

Honestly, if you take out all the financial stuff, I think you've spent an awful lot of time and energy on a house that you'll only live 6-8 years in. 4 years of searching + 8 months of planning/quotes. That is crazy!
As you say you're not a footlose 20 year old so cut you losses, find something practical and enjoy your life. Do you really need to be in that area? St. Andrews isn't huge.

I totally get your husbands pov, I just don't see why you would want to torture yourself with a reno for a few years of fancy home. From my circle of acquaintances I've been hearing nothing but horror stories about renovations recently. One has been going on nearly a year now... If you manage to sell the place at a decent price I would consider it a lesson and move on.

We had the builders out yesterday to look
at ways of despecing as well as the EA.

We need to take quite a chunk out for it to sit within the ceiling price for street/house size. Especially as we are not adding any square footage, although if we met the building regs for the a liveable space garage conversion that might just edge it in.

EA has advised not to spruce and sell, just yet, they find these are the ones that linger, the ones that go are either untouched or fully finished v decent spec/quality. But spruce and sell might be okay if kept veeerryyyy in offensive taste wise and doesn’t look like you’ve spent too much, people don’t like the idea of ripping out new things but if their not to their taste will walk away. Which I felt kinda contradicted the idea that if it was fully done it would go.

We’re going to clean it, tidy and we’ve already taken the carpets up down stairs to reveal some really nice wood flooring. And stick it straight on next week.

Building isn’t due to start until Nov. We have to give a month on the rental and jobs will not allows to do much most of Oct (can’t take annual leave until later Nov) so we’re going to give it until the start of Nov sales wise.

If it doesn’t sell we will take it off and move in. Live in it for a quarter and see how we feel as someone suggested.

There is the predicament of if we then decided to do the work where do we go whilst it’s being done - should have added I am freelance home based - have no office I can go to.

If we decide it’s a no we’ll put it back on at the end of Feb or sooner other property wise.

@squareofthehypotepotenuse haha 🤔🧐 🕵️‍♀️. The bus annoys the hell out of me and it’s often a bloody double decker, I actually thought the same but no it’s twice an hr 5am - 10pm (from bus station) not even the green buses - Diesel engines. Odd given whose in power.

Also it appears to be a rat run….we’re not even it yet and I’ve had to far jump out of the way of cars bombing down at 30-40mph. More than several times. That does really bother me with children, I don’t think they could comfortably play out. I hadn’t realised that.

Haha yes the McMansions bother me too I think the demographic is very similar to the people we bought from all the way along. Obvs the odd extension’s not a worry - we were going to do the same. But as you know the MacMansion‘s a re really not uncommon and then you’ve got years (we know as we’ve lived through it previously of building work). The bigger the project the meow to go wrong the longer it would take.

No we’re not looking at the DWH development, not for us for the reasons you’ve listed and others. Thinking of broadening search to out with.

@squareofthehypotepotenuse sorry to add yes we were adamant from beginning we wanted to look country wide for the builders, and two ended up being Angus based. They’re all within 10/15k of each other so looking outwith has not made a difference.

Sorry, backing onto school and bus route could only really be one road! That’s bad re the double deckers, it used just to be the wee pootling buses on that route, but maybe they have more students using it now with the free bus travel and it’s busier. I’ll admit to using the road as a rat run, sorry! (Don’t speed though) Although I imagine that will reduce when they connect up the DWH development to the low road.
I really can’t think where in St Andrews is better though, unless you have a VERY healthy budget, the housing stock is not great. There are so many poorly extended 60s/70s not so nice houses that sell for silly money.
I think you’ll probably do ok selling the house on - and I agree with your EA that un touched stuff (that can be knocked down and replaced with said mansions) does better.

good luck!

You still just making pretty pathetic excuses... MOST people in this situation have kids and jobs, its not unique to you at all.

None of us are 'footloose and fancy free' we just dont have the privilege to bury our head in the sand or the blindness to complain over every little thing without realising how tone deaf that is.

EVERYTHING you have stated is really pretty standard. You are sat on a fortune, just pay people to get the house livable... its really not hard.

If you look for so many 'woe is me' in every aspect of your life you must be a nightmare customer to deal with.

@squareofthehypotepotenuse hahah that was a bit of a giveaway if you're local, local. I know they always look pretty empty as well! Never seen one of the littl town buses alays the standard single or double.

Yes it's 20 but many seem to fly down and it would be on my mind with the children, you do want to allow them to have some freedom to call at pals etc. once old enough.

Thank you for the insight, I guess you've lived here a while then??

The housing stock is 'interesting' to say the least, you can pay 800k for something I suppose on the larger side of a standard 1970's family home size that will be in the same state (if not worse in terms of general maintenance) than the one we have bought it is bananas . There is barely anything turn key, we've seen the odd smaller (2 bed semi size) and the odd McMansion but that's it, so different to any other oart of the UK I have lived in. I have seen very average 90's new builds that haven't been touched since the early 2000's described as luxury and executive family homes - it is most odd.