Massive Property headache - need hand hold

[propertydisaster]

So we bought a property back in January in our dream area. It is very much a doer upper.

just some back ground we’ve come back via different part of world and UK and have owned and renovated 3 lovely properties previously.

This is a very popular and pricey area we accepted we were going to have to make sacrifices and that the majority (4 yrs I’ve been keeping my eye on this market now so have insight) of properties that come up in our price band have been owned by elderly individuals and are in various states of needing updating.

We took a hit on the type of house (period and size/footprint) and immediate loc/plot (house backs onto primary school and on bus route, plus much smaller garden than would have liked) to be where we wanted to be and have what we hoped would be the money to renovate and make it really lovely/nicely speced. We pretty much immediately had to can any plans of even a small extension. No really biggie got over quickly. We really don’t want a massive house.

However it has taken us 8 months nearly of our architects dragging their heels and builders taking ages to quote to finally get the quotes back (5 in total) way way over, 50% over what the architects initially said (spec has not changed even they’re surprised). We have got the extra money together (parents) but there is no contingency.

DH has just had the conversation with me today that he thinks we should pull out. And sell cut our losses. I mean what would this even mean financially??

I can’t even cope, on some level I know he is right, this was never intended to be the forever but we wanted something really nice, for next 6-8 yrs. like I said we are in our 40’s with kids and have worked hard, and I know I know we’re lucky than most etc, but that’s not helpful in reality.

We’ve looked at de-specing but just feels like too much of a stop gap then and starting a the bottom, and even then it is objectively still an awful lot of money and emotional effort and time to be spending that on something that wasn’t really what we wanted.

As well things I was prepared to ignore and hopefully in time forget about (bus route school etc) for the original discussed figures felt doable, at this level it feels like a deal breaker.

we are in a rental and it is bloody awful, similar to the house we bought as in fully pensioner, plus v cold, damp, boiler on blink needs updating. The thought of been here any longer with no end in sight is pushing me over the edge. Nice rental properties are like hens teeth.

Just been to look at new build it goes against my very core, our previous houses have been such a reflection of us and what we love and have been laboured over, I am depressed at the thought of having something very likely poorly constructed and Homogenous - but I know I’m being a bit of a div.

What the heck do we do.

Ask your landlord if they want to sell the house to you, and if so if they’d wait for you to sell your house.

Seeing as it’s better location and better bones, might be worth living in it while redecorating and doing kitchen etc?

Ok - my view won't be popular but I do get your mindset. I don't think you will like it even fully done because you can't afford the work to make it what you think it should be and I'm not sure you like it enough to do it bit by bit piecemeal without significant alterations that now won't be happening. . You sound as if you've put up with this several times before but now with kids you wanted it done and dusted within a year at most- and hence why you rented.

My own view is I think you should get it decorated, maybe put a new kitchen and bathroom in (if they are very dated) and new flooring - with the view to flip it- whether you move in depends on whether you want the hassle - it may be easier and quicker to get it done not lived in. 'When' this has been done, reassess- if it's still 'not for you' - accept it and move on - it may look better than you thought though.

I'm being honest, you sound to me the kind of woman that would appreciate a new build in the right location and layout - big kitchen, utility room, en-suites etc- - I do too by the way , area and house dependent- I'm no longer obsessed with period, but I do like internal space and decent convenient locations

We rent a 4 bed late Victorian semi - opposite of one you rent- fantastically well done up- we could never afford to buy it sadly!!

Maybe we need a MN Property matchmaking app.

I reckon the OP needs to be paired with the person who posted the thread about rehanging all her doors for no very good reason. They seem to have more money than sense, which is clearly the kind of friend OP needs to pay for her renovation.

I, on the other hand, need a broadly honest person with a modestly sized house that isn't falling down to sell it to me for a sensible price and no funny business.

What does everyone else need? This could be the way forward for us all.

Lol I bought one of those and found out I was pregnant week we exchanged 😱

We still lived in it. 2 years without a kitchen and it was surprisingly doable. Travel kitchining has come on a long way!

I have a similar thread on at the moment. I made the mistake of buying a 1930s house from a couple of pensioners who basically have let it go into disrepair and hid a lot of defects/lied on the forms.

Although I had a full survey that said the house was in ''good condition'' it has turned out to be a house of horror. Boiler was faulty when I got the keys, discovered asbestos in cupboards and a gas fire that had to be condemned because of poor installation, pipes are all lead, no stopcock in the house and decades of bad DIY and corner cutting. Yesterday I found a pool of water in the living room as the toilet was leaking. Turned out it must have been leaking for months and will as well need to be replaced.

I am planning to cut my losses. Try to fix the most urgent bits and then put it back on the market or even at auction.

I can't even move in while it is in that state but I am losing my rental at the end of the month as I obviously gave notice when I exchange.

You have my sympathy.

You make decision OP either way

paying rent and also leaving the new bought house empty, you are heamoraging money without getting anything back in return! Anything you do would be better

if you hate hate hate the house, sell it and buy/rent another

I like this idea but not sure I can find my match on Mumsnet 😢

I need someone with a serious Rightmove addiction despite not being in the market to either buy or sell a house. Maybe I could be matched with one of those brave souls who puts up a link to their house for the entertainment of others?

We did this years ago. Bought a compromise house thinking we would do the loft and side return, got architects plans, full steam ahead and no estimate came in anywhere below twice the architect's suggested budget.

So we redecorated, moved a bathroom to create a decent third bedroom (so we could sell our 2 bedroom and an office house as 3 beds), updated the kitchen and put double doors into the side return so the kitchen wasn't miserable and dark. Wooden floors and new carpets. Dressed it all really nicely and sold when the market picked up for a decent profit.

If there is only one bathroom, do that asap and then move in. Make it pretty and saleable.

Second the 'flip it' suggestion. Change your mindset assume you are redecorating / sorting some basics to flip the property. Get that done whilst in rental - it shouldn't be a big job but gets it clean and liveable. You need to get into a mindset of a flipper - basic, good value and clean. Get it reevaluated - luckily given the location you may be ok even given current market climate.

At this point make a decision based on realistic valuation and current market.

1. sell it - but only if you have a clear idea of where to move to because it sounds like St Andrews isn't it.
2. move in, it will better than the rental, you'll save rent costs. And then you can take a breath and start again. (Obviously may also realize it's not too bad and can live there fir a couple of years before finding the 'forever home')

Also doing a renovation and compromised because the area and street is amazing. Sympathise as our architect plans have been quoted way more than was suggested also.

So we've just cracked on with getting some of the rooms liveable, and doing the structural internal work, removing asbestos professionally, and rewiring first. I hated it. But now we have two really nice bathrooms, and our bedroom and our child's bedroom is done really well. We've set another room as an office and one as a lounge, all finished. We're boarding up the rest of the house til we can afford work on that, and downscaling our plans. And I kind of like it now. Same as you it's probably not a forever home, but it's great location, close to very good school and green space, and town and the station, and it's what we could afford

I absolutely get what your saying OP but times have changed. The amount you could lose (and have lost) could be colossal. Yes you hate the house but why not think of it as a do up to sell. Cheap and cheerful new bathroom and kitchen, paint everywhere. Live in it for 6/12 months. Get out of your hated (costly) rental. Forget architects and builders. I guarantee that even a tiny kitchen is usable.

Whilst I don’t agree with the whole, ‘You can’t complain because plenty of people are worse off’ line (we’re on the property board; not AIBU!), I do think you’re being unrealistic. I totally understand wanting to live in a nice area, but what I don’t understand is that you seem to be hugely stretching yourselves for a postcode alone; you have none of the immediate benefits of being in a good area (quiet, leafy, local amenities) seemingly. If I’m wrong here then perhaps you do just need to suck it up about the plot/bus route, but otherwise I’d think about moving slightly out of area where you can afford what you’re looking for. The other option would be to make to for now, wait for the market to settle, THEN sell and jump up the ladder slightly to what you do want in that area.

What I think is hugely unrealistic is your boot room/laundry, utility room requirements. This makes me wonder if you’ve grandiose ideas you’ll never be able to afford. We live in a beautiful period house in a great area and honestly a boot room is not something I’ve ever had on my list of requirements, nor do we have a separate utility room currently. So I think you need to manage your overall expectations somewhat (and I don’t mean in a spoiled way; I mean in a way where you’ll ultimately be happy with your lot). I don’t know what prices are like in St Andrews, but where I am, you’re looking at £1mil + for those things, which most of us just can’t afford!

Would love a link to it if you felt like it, Mumsnet ideas are the best.

When did this idea of the "forever home" take hold? Once upon a time, only rescue dogs were hoping for a forever home - but dogs only live til like 15 or something. Does nobody on MN anticipate any change as they go through life? If I thought my next house would be my last I'd be quite depressed!

@DepartureLounge 😄 My Friends bought a stereotypical ‘forever home’.
Spent a fortune on it. Was lovely.
One affair later, wife gets the house, now rates have risen she can’t afford it, so it’s being sold.

We did our house up 15 years ago and quotes were way over the architect’s estimates, so this isn’t a new thing (although Brexit / Covid / Ukraine will be additional factors). We scaled back. And lived in it with children and pets whilst the work was done.

It sounds as if you can’t afford anything like what you want in terms of size / location / features so you either live with what you have or cut your losses (bearing in mind that you’ll get hammered with LBTT).

If you stick with the house then you’re mad to be paying rent when you already have somewhere liveable - you can live it in whilst it’s being done up with small children, you just don’t want to. You’re burning money on a rental.

If the kitchen is tiny, turn it into the utility / boot room and move the kitchen elsewhere.

Get a couple of builders round for practical ideas that don’t involve knocking out walls.

You don’t need a handhold you need a reality check.

I actually think very much the opposit... when did this idea of moving around and a property ladder become a thing?

All my grandparents lived in the same houses from when they married until they died, so did my great grandma and granda. We have a family house (nothing fancy, small Victorian 2 bed terrace) that has gone through 6 generations... at some point multiple different nuclear families from the same branch living in it. We have another family house (3 bed semi) that is on the 3rd generation (and has increased from under £5k it was bought for in the 40s to £200+k but is the 'family' home and won't be sold)

This idea of buying then moving and climbing up is VERY modern.

Honestly I find it so depressing, life is too short to drag your kids up and constantly go through the stress of moving to live in houses that aren't the one to keep up with the Jones. Give your kids (and yourself) a touch of stability... a HOME to lay roots and make memories in instead of looking at everything as a cash cow.

Yes, but the "forever home" is the opposite of what you describe, which was a very pragmatic approach to living within your means and accepting they were unlikely to change much. On the contrary, the "forever home" is a highly aspirational idea that depends a great deal on the concept of the property ladder and homes as investments.

What I was suggesting is a truer opposite. I wasn't thinking in aspirational terms at all, so much as suggesting that life cannot be as tightly controlled as people here often seem to imagine. (Just look at the relationships board if you don't believe me.) People in their 30s or 40s handwringing because they've had to settle for a house with a smaller garden and one fewer bedroom than they wanted - and no boot room, my god! - are deluding themselves about the way life unfolds according to its own rules, imo.

If the house is liveable (eg it has a roof, running water, electricity heating etc.. Just move in. Most people have to live with rubbish decor and bad layouts for a few years whilst they sort out the money to do something about it.

You are being strange and wasting money.

@DepartureLounge I totally agree- people are setting themselves up for a possible massive disappointment at various stages of life. Divorces, redundancies, business failures, these are not uncommon occurrences and can hugely change your living circumstances. We have moved a lot as we used to own but now rent and ironically once we were reasonably high earning were too old to get mortgages- but not enough cash to buy outright - we like where we live a lot- but very little shared ownership here either - and if we want shared ownership are looking at 100k down- as can't get a mortgage! Life isn't always a smooth upward curve. At 61 sadly it's taught me not to believe in 'the one' or 'forever homes' .

From your update OP, what you are basically saying is that you can't afford the house you have bought and I can see why.

Instead of making money on your past projects, you have done all that work for nothing and are now broke. Even the money given to you by your parents is now gone and you are living in a horrible home that you hate. Your past terrible financial choices have led you here.

Now, look at what you are doing right now.

You are paying for two houses and only using one.

This is another terrible financial decision. You are wasting money.

Forget the fancy extension. Move into the house with the tiny kitchen. Use the money you are currently wasting on rent to buy paint. Paint everything. Then get new carpets.

Then sell and move into a home you want to live in. You can't afford the area you like so look elsewhere.

Best advice IMO.

Well you need to do something! Jut move in, decorate , maybe do a bit of tweaking and see how you get on.

Keh @WallaceinAnderland ??? 🤔🤔, I think you might have gotten confused, no we haven’t spent all our money? Sorry if I wasn’t clear that’s not case.

We still have just under physical 94k in the bank which is left over equity from prev sale house. There was significantly more but obvs used for deposit, LBTT and paid off car loan.

Had project had started when architects said we wouldn’t have had to dip into that and would have had just over 100k.

Architects told us project would be 100-120k ,then there’d be the kitchen and bathroom on top. Priced all that and spoke to parents.

parents agreed between them to gift us 40k

All Quotes have come in 185-190k mark. And that’s before work started and without contingency. Obviously we were very stuck. My parents then kindly agreed to give us the short fall so we could go ahead as speced this was via releasing some of my inheritance - as opposed to a gift.

The predicament is we don’t feel the house is worth that amount of money and part of my inheritance….but then if we don’t spend that it becomes a different proposition and something we wouldn’t have bought. It was bought with the intention of doing this work, and doing it in one go.

This is a great summary with good advice. I suspect OP will not take heed though.