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Moving to Liverpool, commuting to London - is it mad?

227 replies

YouHaveAnArse · 26/07/2023 13:04

We are living in London and renting - while we have a good LL who charges a decent rent, the news and the fact that estate agents are charging significantly more for flats in the same building is adding to the massive anxiety I get for six months a year about whether we will be made homeless. We have some family and health things going on at the moment which is further underlining how difficult it is to not be able to properly plan more than a year in advance as you don't know whether you'll have to move, or how difficult it is when you live five hours by train or a nightbus away from somewhere you now have to visit more often.

We can't afford to buy in London, unless it was shared ownership, which I'm not entirely sure is a good option. I don't care about the property ladder or building up equity, I just want to put down some money for a place that will be ours and not have to move again unless we really want to. We don't have or will have kids, we both have jobs which would allow us to move out of the city as long as we can attend our London offices in person once a week or fortnight - colleagues of mine are currently doing this and I've been asking how they've been finding it. And I've lived in London long enough that I would be more than happy getting to know a new city, especially if I feel I'm able to relax a little more on a day to day basis. We want to make a home there rather than the temporary feeling of renting which makes you feel like you can't really get yourself involved in the community and get to know it, even if part of me worries that we're just moving London's unaffordability problem to a different community?

DH is quite keen that any move would be to another city - neither of us drive, I want to live somewhere which has its own thing rather than being a dormitory community of London (plus buying/renting in the traditional commuter belt is not much cheaper, especially when factoring in train costs) both of us want the potential to change jobs rather than keep our current ones if we decide to do so which makes Manchester, Liverpool or Leeds/Sheffield seem like good places to start. I lived in Manchester for a while, but Liverpool looks like a good option - family were from there so I feel a bit of an affinity, it's cheaper to live there, it has a good feeling about it that makes me feel it could be a good place to settle. DH is happy with a similar size flat as the one we rent just now, I would be too, but the leasehold thing makes me wonder if it would effectivley feel like renting with the extra restrictions and potential hikes in cost. I don't have a problem with somewhere needing redecorating or having to plan to replace the kitchen over the next few years etc. but we don't have the skills to do anything major, we'd have to pay other people to do it for us.

I don't even know where to start looking other than 'where's near the station' or which areas are realistically an option to get to the train first thing. I think £100k would be a good realistic starting budget to look at in terms of a mortgage that's realistic for us to get and pay off quickly (we are 41 and 45) whilst also leaving us space to pay for other costs and room to weather any rate hikes and still live our lives, but it's hard to say until we start properly planning. There are lots of houses by Anfield that are well within that but I keep seeing people say it's a dodgy area - I never know what that means given that what people consider 'dodgy areas' near us in SE London are a) ones we're probably priced out of b) seem absolutely fine to me c) often seems code for 'working class' or 'too many chicken shops' - it's more that my experiences of Victorian terraces is that they're generally massively damp that puts me off!

This is a long-term thing to think about whilst we keep adding to our deposit funds, making ourselves look like good people for the bank to lend a load of money to, and dealing with other stuff, but any advice? Thanks and sorry for rambling, I'm just overthinking as usual :)

OP posts:
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Jmaho · 27/07/2023 11:52

YouHaveAnArse · 27/07/2023 11:37

I'm sure you know this but it's not uncommon to pay monthly rents that far outstrip the equivalent mortgage payments (at least, until recently!) but banks still not believing you meet their affordability criteria...that's why I'm just never sure how conservative is too conservative.

I've just put our current rent into Rightmove, set the criteria to within three miles and it's just coming up with rooms in houseshares, so who knows what banks will make of that in terms of giving us money.

As an Underwriter rent currently being paid is not something that is factored in to how much we would lend
There is a new 100% mortgage with a certain building society that is offering the product on the basis of amount of rent paid. But on standard mortgages this is not taken into account in how we calculate affordability. Play with some calculators

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 11:55

You can definitely get something decent in Liverpool for £150k

Avoid Anfield (and much of Tuebrook) tho! It’s not that it’s working class – it’s that it’s horribly deprived and doesn’t have a good feel. I’ve lived in ‘vibrant’ poor areas, however this is not it. Never had any trouble there but just felt like a sad, grim place. And also not at all diverse.

There are other areas that are good value but have a great atmosphere. I’d check out south liverpool.

Manchester you would struggle to find something on the same budget, but is also v commutable from Liverpool – about 40 min drive.

continentallentil · 27/07/2023 11:58

It would be mad to think you could definitely hold onto a job in London while living in Liverpool, Sheffield or Manchester, as required office hours can change, but if you could get work locally if you needed to, then fine.

Badbadbunny · 27/07/2023 12:02

YorkshireIndie · 26/07/2023 13:30

York to London is doable as it is about 2hrs but it is harder to get to Liverpool and is a longer journey (if I remember correctly)

Would Peterborough work?

York has become very expensive for housing (both to buy and rent), and rentals are increasingly hard to get, all due to the 2 Unis, teaching hospital and tourism which has led to lots of homes being repurposed for students or holiday lets!

AcclimDD · 27/07/2023 12:04

I think it's doable OP if just once weekly commute to London Euston and there's no DC to consider.
If you look at the waterfront /dock/quay flats in Liverpool, you'd have a 20min walk to Lime Street or maybe you could cycle to the station -5 mins.
Discard Anfield, Bootle. Also avoid the city centre flats by the pubs/ nightclubs in Liverpool centre. Going out as far as Sefton Pk, Lark lane, Aigburth, Wirral etc while nice areas are adding an extra layer of complication to getting into the city centre for Lime St.
Something like this:

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/137784020#/?channel=RES_BUY

Would be ideal for location and your budget, and you can walk into the city centre really easily.
Good luck, go for it.
PS West Derby-nice enough suburban area for bringing up kids-but not really what you're looking for.

RedToothBrush · 27/07/2023 12:04

YouHaveAnArse · 27/07/2023 10:21

As I said, I know people who are currently doing it so I've been speaking to them a lot about how they are finding the commute, the time, the cost etc. My friend in Crosby takes the train to Lime Street and then from there to King's X which is near where we work - it might be unrealistic budget-wise to manage to live within three miles' walk of the station but if possible that would be a big help too. But as you say, a lot to consider.

We are looking at a rise of £200-£400 on our rent, whether we stay here and the LL puts it up or we try and move (even smaller places than where we live now are expensive, and that's the listed price, not the price people eventually pay as they are now expected to put in bids over the asking price and/or offer a year's rent in advance which would take a good chunk of our deposit savings until we can replenish it.....and potentially have to do the same for the next place). If there is a chance of us being able to buy somewhere, and we spend the same every month including travel as we do now, or would with a rent rise, it doesn't seem like a mad decision.

Go to Liverpool for a weekend. Get the Friday Evening train back (at time you would get to Euston) and then get the early Monday morning train back.

Actually try it yourself to see how YOU feel about it, rather than simply listening to others.

BeaumontLivinston · 27/07/2023 12:10

Anything's possible but the train journey is expensive but only twice the bus journey from zone 4 to central, which I used to do daily for work. I moved from London to Liverpool 20 years ago and love it here because of the unique way people are, very friendly, very talkative, down to earth, it doesn't have that air of stress that you feel as soon as you get off the train at London.

I've done a 4 hour commute both ways once so I'm not going to tell you you can’t do it.

I know what areas are nice here; Woolton, Childwall – those are the super expensive ones with the lovely huge houses and small feel community.

Avoid Croxteth, Kensington, and I would say that’s it these days.

West Derby, or nearby Dovecot which is less desirable so cheaper, are good options to look.

But why not come and look in an estate agents and have a day of it?

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 12:13

HoggyDunlop · 27/07/2023 05:56

I would consider Leeds as a serious option. I've RTFT but can't see any clarity on your actual budget?

There are plenty of city centre flats in Leeds which are under 30mins to the train station, with a direct 2hr 20 route to King's Cross. I have lots of 30 something child free friends living in the Docks area by the canal and they love it. Leeds City Centre has lots happening and it's well connected by train to other areas if you want to visit friends or family. Worth some consideration.

Leeds is really nice

RedToothBrush · 27/07/2023 12:14

Two things:

With your income and deposit £250 - £290k for a house would be relatively conservative. If you move to Liverpool you might find yourself eventually changing job so no longer on London rates and you wouldnt necessarily get as much as that if your transport costs were really high - but it isn't out of the question either.

Secondly I think a minimum budget for Liverpool is realistically more like £150k. If you could push it to £200k you'd still be on the conservative side. And that would put your mortgage at about £1000 a month.

I think you need to give this A LOT more thought tbh because actually you have many more options than you think here and you aren't thinking about the practicalities enough yet.

Good luck.

Lwrenagain · 27/07/2023 12:16

It always feels like I'm dissing Liverpool when I really love it, but really sadly burglary and theft in general is a nightmare in certain parts.
Friends of mine had a note written to potential thieves saying something to the effect of, "we've not replaced any of the decent shit yet, don't bother".
Not saying burglary isn't problematic anywhere you live, but some places are just rife.
Manchester I love in the day, nighttimes had some trouble, but thats only because of my accent. Doesn't matter how friendly you are, sometimes a rogue bellend or 2 will want to say something evil about Hillsborough to me. (Once had over 30 gobshites in a pub sing 96 wasn't enough at me, it was awful. But I've been to Manchester 100s of times and I can honestly say the people are really lovely, groups of men with alcohol aren't who you'd judge a city and its people on!) But again, I got called a scouse slag once in a really posh part of East Sussex, so I think my accent just annoys people 😂
I love living up north, I love the way we've got coast and cities, twee villages and countryside surrounding us.
Also Chester, very enjoyable city to spend time in.
I feel so sad people can't live comfortably on really amazing wages in these times.
My household income really is less than half of the OP's and my family and I live really comfortably compared to some people. And that's soon to be 6 of us.
We can afford our bills, decent food budget, enough for clothes etc and treat days and a few holiday savings.
I can't imagine that would be remotely possible down south.
(Also, I'm saying this like London has no crime, I am aware London is a major city and there are more people than the royals and cast of made in Chelsea living there 😂😂)

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 12:20

IWasFunBeforeMum · 26/07/2023 15:08

With a 100k budget? Sefton Park really?

You can live very close to Sefton Park for that (under 5 mins) – you might struggle literally in the park, yes.

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 12:21

RedToothBrush · 27/07/2023 12:14

Two things:

With your income and deposit £250 - £290k for a house would be relatively conservative. If you move to Liverpool you might find yourself eventually changing job so no longer on London rates and you wouldnt necessarily get as much as that if your transport costs were really high - but it isn't out of the question either.

Secondly I think a minimum budget for Liverpool is realistically more like £150k. If you could push it to £200k you'd still be on the conservative side. And that would put your mortgage at about £1000 a month.

I think you need to give this A LOT more thought tbh because actually you have many more options than you think here and you aren't thinking about the practicalities enough yet.

Good luck.

Disagree strongly with this – you can get something v nice in Liverpool for under £150k

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 12:30

lovelychops · 26/07/2023 23:10

Toxteth is very lovely ! Princes Park. Lots of multicultural places Lodge Lane way.. so close to town. You could look at the redeveloped Welsh streets. Certainly worth considering

Toxteth imo is the best area in Liverpool

ladyvivienne · 27/07/2023 12:30

Hilarious , something 'very nice' in Liverpool for under £150k? - go on then, link?

OP honestly this is an awful idea. I used to commute to London from Liverpool. I had zero life. Zero. That's not a way to live, You only get one shot at life!

You work to live remember, not live to work! New Brighton on the Wirral is ok if you've not kids and never plan to, but if you change your mind you're living somewhere with shit schools (hence why it's cheap)

Move jobs, that's the obvious solution. Learn to drive so you've got some independence (honestly have no idea how anyone copes without driving, unless you like in New York)

PomTiddlyPom · 27/07/2023 12:34

YouHaveAnArse · 27/07/2023 11:17

I know this sounds dramatic but I'm feeling really upset right now as I thought we had a get out of jail free card (OK, get out of jail via a long commute) and posters are adamant thaat it's not really a solution at all.

The issues with mortgages at the moment I think are also making me feel very conservative about what to borrow, because I want us to be able to weather the cost of rate rises which don't seem to be going away any time soon. I know a couple of people who bought in the past year and are screwed now because nobody saw the extent to which this would all hit.

Kindly, OP you seem to be spiralling. I suggest you take a step back and look at this objectively.
Why are you putting the opinions of internet strangers over the real people you know doing this?
People may be 'adamant' but at the end of the day, it's only YOUR opinion that matters. Distinguish between:

  • Facts (i.e. 'trains might be late)
  • Opinions ('dodgy areas', 'travelling is draining').
The 'Opinions' are irrelevant - the only way to find out is to do it yourself.

Now I would agree with most people on here if you had DC and had to be home punch clock - but you don't!

There is also the issues of your AGE. Despite rate rises etc people are still banging on about you being conservative including a poster who claims to be a mortgage advisor.

Again, the amount you can borrow = FACT. 'Conservativeness' = Opinion.

DH and I are on similar salaries to you and borrowed much less than our top level affordability. People laughed at us - but while they're saddled with huge mortgages and houses they struggle to maintain we're well on the way to being mortgage free by overpaying and have a lovely life with plenty of going out and holidays.

People also criticised me for moving out of London but again.... I'm a houseowner and actually have money for gigs while my London renting friends are constantly scrimping.

No hate - but just to show you that other people aren't always right.

Work out what YOU value. Do a trial run. Then see how you get on.

YouHaveAnArse · 27/07/2023 12:36

RedToothBrush · 27/07/2023 12:04

Go to Liverpool for a weekend. Get the Friday Evening train back (at time you would get to Euston) and then get the early Monday morning train back.

Actually try it yourself to see how YOU feel about it, rather than simply listening to others.

We're going to do this later in the year.

OP posts:
PomTiddlyPom · 27/07/2023 12:37

Also to add - yes the retirement age is 68 but DH and I didn't want to be working FT until then if we could help it. Of course, we're only halfway though and don't know what else life might throw at us but you can definitely get a 25 (standard) year mortgage in your 40's, as you still have enough time left in your working life.

Whether you'd WANT to do that is another question though. If you're in the lucky position of being able to consider it.

Mortgage advisors often miss that point completely.

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 12:37

ladyvivienne · 27/07/2023 12:30

Hilarious , something 'very nice' in Liverpool for under £150k? - go on then, link?

OP honestly this is an awful idea. I used to commute to London from Liverpool. I had zero life. Zero. That's not a way to live, You only get one shot at life!

You work to live remember, not live to work! New Brighton on the Wirral is ok if you've not kids and never plan to, but if you change your mind you're living somewhere with shit schools (hence why it's cheap)

Move jobs, that's the obvious solution. Learn to drive so you've got some independence (honestly have no idea how anyone copes without driving, unless you like in New York)

What’s with the rudeness? I live here and pay attention, and bought my own house in a great area for less than that within the last couple of years. I’m not required to deliver evidence, I’m passing on info to the OP as someone with direct experience and insight – I’m sure the OP can take a look herself if she’s interested.

Work2live · 27/07/2023 12:39

It isn't technically a city, it's a large town, but I agree with pp who have suggested Warrington. It would be a good in-between option for you. It's a large town with decent restaurants, bars, cafes and a bit of a gig scene. Usually something going on of a weekend.

I commute Warrington Bank Quay to Euston semi-regularly and it used to be fine. Now, not so much as Avanti are useless. But it's doable. There are some direct trains that take as little as 1hr 40. The only place I can think of in the NW where you'll get a better service to London is Crewe, and I wouldn't really recommend it as an area (lived there for 20 years) as it doesn't have much going on.

If you're in Warrington you can also get to Manchester or Liverpool on the train within 30-40 minutes, giving you plenty of options if you wanted to move jobs - loads of opportunities in Manchester especially. Those trains are generally on the Warrington Central/West/Padgate/Birchwood line, not Warrington BQ. Warrington Central has the most (and fastest!) trains to Liverpool and Manchester.

Lots of businesses are based out of Warrington too so there's no shortage of jobs really, depending on what you'd be looking for.

There are flats in your price range available, well within walking distance to Warrington BQ and Central. The town centre isn't an amazing area, but it's not terrible (I used to live 10 mins walk away):

2 bed
2 bed

PomTiddlyPom · 27/07/2023 12:39

Gadooza · 27/07/2023 12:37

What’s with the rudeness? I live here and pay attention, and bought my own house in a great area for less than that within the last couple of years. I’m not required to deliver evidence, I’m passing on info to the OP as someone with direct experience and insight – I’m sure the OP can take a look herself if she’s interested.

I live in an area people turn their noses up at but it's great - nice people, when I am running for the bus it waits. People chat to me in shops etc, I lost some stuff and they went to great lengths to return it When I moved in I got a few neighbours come out to help, unasked!
yes on paper some bits are 'deprived' but there's not much ASBO. A pp said the 'nicer' areas have more burglaries and houses stank if weed. Same in my experience.

I love it here. Glad I didn't spaff money up the wall on the 'nice' area I rented in where nobody gave a shit about me or any of their neighbours

YouHaveAnArse · 27/07/2023 12:42

I can't learn to drive. Even if I could, I don't want to live anywhere where driving is a necessity for getting about, that makes me feel the opposite of independent. People feel differently about things.

OP posts:
YouHaveAnArse · 27/07/2023 12:47

Work2live · 27/07/2023 12:39

It isn't technically a city, it's a large town, but I agree with pp who have suggested Warrington. It would be a good in-between option for you. It's a large town with decent restaurants, bars, cafes and a bit of a gig scene. Usually something going on of a weekend.

I commute Warrington Bank Quay to Euston semi-regularly and it used to be fine. Now, not so much as Avanti are useless. But it's doable. There are some direct trains that take as little as 1hr 40. The only place I can think of in the NW where you'll get a better service to London is Crewe, and I wouldn't really recommend it as an area (lived there for 20 years) as it doesn't have much going on.

If you're in Warrington you can also get to Manchester or Liverpool on the train within 30-40 minutes, giving you plenty of options if you wanted to move jobs - loads of opportunities in Manchester especially. Those trains are generally on the Warrington Central/West/Padgate/Birchwood line, not Warrington BQ. Warrington Central has the most (and fastest!) trains to Liverpool and Manchester.

Lots of businesses are based out of Warrington too so there's no shortage of jobs really, depending on what you'd be looking for.

There are flats in your price range available, well within walking distance to Warrington BQ and Central. The town centre isn't an amazing area, but it's not terrible (I used to live 10 mins walk away):

2 bed
2 bed

Thanks - the bottom one looks nice but is sold for 'investors only', which I've found to be quite common when looking at lower-priced places! Just makes it all feel like a cartel, innit.

OP posts:
Jmaho · 27/07/2023 12:49

@PomTiddlyPom think you need to re read my posts and see that I haven't once said I'm a mortgage advisor. I'm an Underwriter.
£100k mortgage on a joint salary of £80k whilst paying over £1000 a month in rent soon to be £1400 a month is conservative whether you like that or not
Good for you borrowing much less than you were offered. I did the same.
However I don't understand the being Conservative and really restricting where you can live when you could still have a mortgage in line with your rent or less vs paying rent at that amount into retirement
I did suggest that the poster played with some calculators in the hope that she could find a monthly amount she would be comfortable with that is fixed over a term she is also comfortable with
That would give her a much better idea of budget as surely budget is the over-riding factor in all of this?
I'm not sure why I've annoyed you so much when I was just trying to help

PomTiddlyPom · 27/07/2023 12:49

YouHaveAnArse · 27/07/2023 12:47

Thanks - the bottom one looks nice but is sold for 'investors only', which I've found to be quite common when looking at lower-priced places! Just makes it all feel like a cartel, innit.

Two reasons:

  1. Sitting Tenants
  2. Difficult to get a mortgage (if it's above a shop for example).

You're welcome to buy it in the case of 1), but be prepared to go through the long process of evicting tenants - which you as renters yourself must be aware of!

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