Have you ever collapsed a chain? How did it feel?

[Finallybreathingout]

Very long, sorry!

We are close to exchange on a house; we’re the bottom of the chain as we have already sold ours. Our vendors are buying a house of real sentimental significance to them - they only put the house on the market to grab the chance to buy it. So there is a LOT of emotional investment. They are really nice people and would live very locally, and have welcomed us to the community.

We had a long delay getting our final mortgage offer owing to underwriting issues so have already delayed things. We also changed solicitors as our original one was dreadful and we didn’t have confidence in them, so we have already been crap buyers, much to my mortification. But things were finally running smoothly.

Then enquiries came back and there are no building regs. To cut a very long story short, indemnities won’t cut it, the material value of the house is affected, and we’d need building work which is currently very roughly estimated at about 10% of the purchase price all costs included. We are weighing up whether to ask for a retention or just to pull out. We really didn’t want to do building work, so immediately we are in a situation we’d looked to avoid, and it will cause major inconvenience to the whole family.

Has anyone ever pulled out and collapsed a chain? Did you sleep at night? This is so difficult but I feel I’m putting the feelings of total strangers above my own self interest. We like the house very much but could carry on renting and find another without all these issues. Everyone else involved has their plans ruined, and all the same sunk costs wasted as us. This is awful, and because it’s now so last minute, even if we ask for the retention we’re going to look like those people who gazunder. We’ve already said we would take the fact that the house is old and needs a new boiler and probably rewiring on the chin and not negotiate over all that.

I’d try and negotiate a significant price reduction or retention. If they go back on the market they’ll have to accept less as the property has fewer bedrooms than advertised. When we bought our flat we found out the lease length was 20 years shorter than advertised, and got some money off because of it

We like the house very much but we’re fairly clearheaded. It’s not the one and only dream house so it very much needs to be a real cold light of day pro and cons assessment. And no bloody sentiment about other people.

I think you’ve answered you’re own question - given the lender’s position and the solicitors’ advice, you need to pull out of the sale. It’s going to be crappy for your sellers, but I can’t see why anyone would proceed in these circumstances.

I hear you OP and I totally get where you are coming from. We rejected a house which had an "attic bedroom" reached by a ladder which was clearly not compliant - although we discovered this very early on. Having been through our own (compliant) loft conversion, I know what sorts of things building control are interested in, and these are things which are often not cheap to resolve.

Yes to structural things like the dormer window. But the inspector who looked at ours was very interested in things like head height at the top of the stairs, the angle and width of the staircase, the insulation, height of the windows. None of these things are cheap to put right, and if you need a new staircase or have to rip off all the plasterboard to increase insulation, incredibly disruptive if you are not wanting to do building work. Other issues such as fitting fire doors are expensive, but not disruptive.

Honestly, I would pull out. You are not up for doing building work, and buying this property will mean you have to do building work.

I see this as a property problem as opposed to a 'you' problem.

It is totally different to a scenario where a buyer or seller pulls out for purely personal reasons (change of heart/better offer etc.)

No matter who had been the buyer here, the same issue would be faced - and at the very least a request to reduce the purchase price would be made. If you do pull out - you can say to the seller that you will agree to sell any searches etc. to a subsequent buyer to save time.

If you were buying an expensive antique, had it looked at by an expert and found a serious flaw - then who in their right mind would continue at the original asking price?

It is sad for the sellers but inevitable - no matter who the buyer is.

Walk away! Sounds like the biggest headache ever. Make an excuse that mortgage has been pulled or something 🤷‍♀️ they will get over it.

Yep, I'd pull out. It's not worth the stress and faff knowing you'll have issues selling it in the future. It does sound like this is on your sellers, so I would drop out and kindly let them know why so they can re-market the property properly.

I think I would walk away.

Its now not what you were sold, ie less bedrooms than you thought and now needs a lot of work doing. Even if they were prepared to drop the price significantly, which I doubt, it would have to be the price of a house with less bedrooms that needed work doing. You could really be looking at half the current asking price. I suspect insurance will be a problem too. Depends how much you love it and if you want to live in a house that potentially may not be safe.
I couldn’t cope with the stress and would pull out.

I think you are being incredibly generous in your description of your vendors. Wilful ignorance is not the same as good faith.

Following. We bought a house that didn't have building regs but we got them retrospectively before we exchanged. There are things that were done very cheaply and badly on our extension and loft conversion, but at least we have the paperwork. We also got a 15k price reduction based on a survey that identified lots of issues. Am I reading correctly that you haven't had a full structural survey done? Why is that?

If you can't get the building regs retrospectively, then I would walk away...

Thanks again for all the thoughts.

Unhelpfully I’m on a major deadline at work so am having to fit thinking in around all that, and the estate agents are chasing.

I think we are 95% sure (will decide by lunchtime) that we are to drop our offer to one that is frankly quite generous for a house with the number of legal bedrooms but is a significant drop that would allow us to add to our mortgage borrowing to get the work done.

We’ll also offer to pay what we originally offered if the work is either done or retrospective approval secured.

If the answer is no, then we walk away and we’re not negotiating. This is not about the cost of the work, it’s about the current value of the house.

Ask yourself if you're secretly hoping they'll refuse the offer. Then you'll know to pull out. Don't be bullied or even slightly pressured by the estate agent chasing - of course they are; they want the dosh. Don't compromise your life to get them off your back or to please anyone else. Do you really want to have to do all that work on this house? Will you really be satisfied with retrospective approval if you've been told on good authority that the existing work is unsatisfactory?

That's my two penn'orth - but all the very best with whatever you decide.

Good luck with your decision making!

Thanks.

I don’t think they can GET retrospective approval to be honest so it’s offering the option for them to explore it but trying to do that would at least demonstrate to the owners what we’re dealing with I think.

I've read your responses to most of the posts and what comes across is that you really don't want to buy this house. All your responses are validating your worries especially when people advise its not such an issue. I don't think you're ever going to enjoy this property, it's not for you. Bummer for the vendors but sadly their problem don't make it yours.

@been and done it. Funny you should say that as I just said to DH that I needed to remember why we'd originally offered on the house as it had begun to feel like nothing but a problem rather than the lovely house we'd originally looked at.

Anyway, it's moot, as the agent has come back to say the vendors won't get any work done or drop the price, saying "we deal with many sales of older houses where work has been carried out pre-building regs, and it does not usually cause such issues". They say they just don't understand what the problem is, why we've dropped the price, or why we think we'd have an issue selling the house again. So that's that. Maybe we weren't clear enough in our email to them (I thought we were) but the total lack of give on that side has wiped us out.

And I do feel gutted because I'd literally just talked myself back into wanting the house!

Bottle of red tonight, then move on.

I think you’ve done the right thing. You said it wasn’t your one and only dream house. It’s horrible when chains collapse but everyone will move on

Sounds like you did the right thing OP. We had to walk away from a purchase quite late on the process due to a planning issue and offer of a joke indemnity from the vendor. It collapsed our chain including losing our buyer. TBH the guilt didnt last that long and was quickly replaced by relief at having not bought a lemon!

Probably the correct decision in the end.

It's not necessarily the lack of a building regs completions certificate itself that would have worried me. it's that both builder and surveyor seem to have been saying that it's not even close to complying with the regs that were in place when it is estimated the conversion was carried out.

If the opinion was that the standard of conversion was pretty reasonable, with no major causes for concern, but missing the paperwork I probably would have gone ahead.

The floor has just been laid on top of the existing loft floor and the dormer is unsupported, so both issues of potential safety.

not a chance in hell my children would be sleeping in those rooms. They marketed a house with x bedrooms, you're actually going to get a house with y bedrooms. That's not your fault.

absolutely pull out. If your current house suits you, buying that might not be a bad idea if you're worried about your mortgage offer.

Vendors may well be bluffing and you walking away will make them think twice!

I think the big issue is that the agent is hugely minimising the issue to the vendors so they're probably thinking we're very fussy buyers and not that there is a fundamental issue. I feel bad for them really as they aren't getting good advice.

I think the agent is also referring to the work as pre-dating building regs but unless everyone involved (including the vendors themselves) is wrong, the work was done well after 1983. This isn't a 60s extension to a Victorian house.

I think you've done the right thing OP.

Usually when it comes to paperwork., I'd just say to get a survey, satisfy yourself that the quality of whatever work in question is acceptable, get an indemnity and move on happy.

But in this case its a material difference between a 5 bedroom & 3 bedroom house, and the only legitimate way forward is either you old offer stands, the sellers sort it out and you buy a 5 bedroom house. Or you lower your offer to that of a 3 bedroom with posh loft, backed up by a revaluation accordingly from your mortgage company.

You have done the right thing OP, don’t buy a headache, if it’s a problem buying will be even more of a problem selling. Good luck moving forward.

It's not "pre building regs" though is it? That would mean pre 1985, which you don't think this is. It's "never complied with legal standards that were in place for a reason".

If they have not replaced the original ceiling joists with floor joists and had the dormer trimmed out correctly, these are serious issues. Bar a very few odd situations, the floor would have needed to be strengthened and you absolutely cannot just chop a dormer into a roof without rejigging the load paths around it.

I would walk away