Have you ever collapsed a chain? How did it feel?

[Finallybreathingout]

Very long, sorry!

We are close to exchange on a house; we’re the bottom of the chain as we have already sold ours. Our vendors are buying a house of real sentimental significance to them - they only put the house on the market to grab the chance to buy it. So there is a LOT of emotional investment. They are really nice people and would live very locally, and have welcomed us to the community.

We had a long delay getting our final mortgage offer owing to underwriting issues so have already delayed things. We also changed solicitors as our original one was dreadful and we didn’t have confidence in them, so we have already been crap buyers, much to my mortification. But things were finally running smoothly.

Then enquiries came back and there are no building regs. To cut a very long story short, indemnities won’t cut it, the material value of the house is affected, and we’d need building work which is currently very roughly estimated at about 10% of the purchase price all costs included. We are weighing up whether to ask for a retention or just to pull out. We really didn’t want to do building work, so immediately we are in a situation we’d looked to avoid, and it will cause major inconvenience to the whole family.

Has anyone ever pulled out and collapsed a chain? Did you sleep at night? This is so difficult but I feel I’m putting the feelings of total strangers above my own self interest. We like the house very much but could carry on renting and find another without all these issues. Everyone else involved has their plans ruined, and all the same sunk costs wasted as us. This is awful, and because it’s now so last minute, even if we ask for the retention we’re going to look like those people who gazunder. We’ve already said we would take the fact that the house is old and needs a new boiler and probably rewiring on the chin and not negotiate over all that.

The sellers are likely to have this same issue with anyone they attempt to sell the house to.

if you very much want this house otherwise, I’d ask for a reduction in price to the amount your builder mate has quoted.

it isn’t gazundering when there are real works to be carried out. Particularly as the house is not actually worth what they marketed as because it is in fact missing two bedrooms.

if the sellers don’t accept that, then walk away.

they’ll have the same issue crop up again

You don’t need to justify yourself to us. You made an offer in good faith and now things have changed hugely. Unless you are certain you still want this house with the loss of value and hassle that entails (no judgement if you do, a dream house is a dream house) it’s ok to pull out. Don’t put other people’s theoretical happiness over your own. It’s not fair. Also, tbh the vendors and agent should have been more transparent about the loft rooms. When I’ve seen houses with similar they have been marketed as ‘loft rooms’ or ‘loft spaces’ rather than bedrooms, and the agent has been explicit about this.

This is on the estate agent

Not really.
Nobody knows exactly when the work was done.
We don't know what the seller told the agent.
It's not 'on' anybody, other than the property owner at the time who didn't ensure building regs were complied with, and get a certificate.

It is obviously the loft conversion which is the major concern. I would only buy this on the basis that I had full knowledge of what is required to make this right (compliant with building regs) and how much that is likely to cost etc and be happy to do it.

I am probably quite conservative, but until this was done I would not be comfortable in allowing these rooms to used as bedrooms (especially for children). Why? You have been told they are not compliant/potentially unsafe. What if a fire broke out at night? Unlikely, yes but not unheard of. You also have to consider your own responsibilities/duty of care to others here.

People on this thread mock and laugh and patronise you and others who have shown concern. Please don't listen to them, take the advice of your solicitors and trusted builders/surveyors.

We bought a house that had an old ground floor extension that didn't meet building regs, however the seller was very honest about it from the start and we managed to negotiate the price down significantly.
Unless the seller is willing to lower the price I wouldn't buy.

I think you put your cards on the table with the vendor and explain your lender is now treating the house as having fewer bedrooms and so you have to do the same, express regret this wasn't made clear in the beginning, estate agent should have advised, reoffer if you want or withdraw but don't go ahead as is, even if others would make a different now it's official council and lenders know the conversion is not approved it will taint future sale and reduce your pool of buyers even if you decide not to care.

The fact the owner also got the porch without permission would be a bit of a red flag. I have bought places with full structural surveys but they don't show everything. It is not until you come to start changing things yourself do you start to see other short cuts that have been taken.

As you say it is an old house so you don't expect perfection - but you may uncover some other surprises over time.

It's not gazundering if there is a material difference to the status of the house discovered.

I think in your position I would ask for a healthy rentention/ reduction, see what they say, and take it from there. I don’t think I would walk away if I was otherwise happy with the house but I would definitely want to make sure I’d have the money to make good the work to a decent standard. If they choose to say no then it’s them, not you, who have made that decision.

estate agent should have advised

Again, not necessarily the agent at fault. Depends on what the vendor told the agent.

I think if you have to talk yourself into it this much, it's probably best to walk away tbh.

I'm solicitor and I would just walk away. You didn't sign up for a building project and who knows what other things need doing when you start pulling things apart - especially when it was a botched job from the start. Why on earth would you want to buy this property to make other peoples' lives easier and your own life harder? It is not your fault that the vendors bought a lemon. Never put other people's financial security ahead of your own.

Pull out it's a lemon and any future buyer will see these issues unless you fully rectify them at great hassle and expense to yourselves.

I think if you genuinely like the house and could put up with the works I'd get some firm quotes and ask for a significant reduction based on the current number of bedrooms.

Because of how much interest rates are going up I'd be wary of losing lots of money by starting from scratch.

I would definitely not proceed and the vendors only really have themselves to blame so I wouldn't feel bad for them either. The house is possibly unsafe and I say that as someone who has a loft conversion and understand the possible risks and calculations that need to be done to ensure the structure is sound.

The vendors will need to sort this out either now or with their next buyer as the same issue will crop up again. They need to get it up to building regs themselves and they re-market at the correct number of bedrooms.

Thanks for all the input.

We are talking to our broker about various options of funding the purchase at a more
appropriate amount if we wanted to go for it, and what a different mortgage offer would cost us if we pull out and our current one expired.

We need to weigh all the factors and see whether it feels worth the pain of the work we’d need to do. We also have the option of buying the house we’re currently renting which isn’t as well situated as the one we’re talking about but would be a slam dunk in terms of conveyancing! We haven’t been considering it but we could probably get it through under our current mortgage offer and it would be no disruption at all to our lives (although some of the disruption of moving would make life better).

I think you need to do what is right for you. It was done to us recently and it's shit but you get over it. You have to be happy with your purchase ultimately.

I think you need to pull out. It reads to me like you’re trying to find a way of getting money off. Can you no longer afford it ?

Of course it would have to be completely rebuilt to meet current regs if it was built 40 odd years ago, every single extension in existence would be. The point is it doesn’t need to meet current regs, that’s for things being built now. They are not retrospective. They are for current building projects.

it’s completely odd how your lender is behaving, do they have the full and correct info, as it’s unheard of that they would wish an extension built so long ago to be compliant with today and not classify as bedrooms. And for a solicitor to tell you that you need to get retro consent for something so old is just plain wrong, the right to do so was lost long ago.

the only thing where it would be within time limit is if it was deemed unsafe. And that’s not what you’re posting is your issue.

The whole thing is beyond bizarre.

I bought a house with 2 bedrooms and a ‘loft space’, most older loft conversions in my area have not been done to regs and it’s not an issue safety wise or anything else, other than what you can technically market/sell the property as.

I have just spent £50k redoing ours as a proper conversion, with a dormer and second bathroom added. Had I not needed the space I wouldn’t have bothered, but now if I do sell it will be as a 3 bed.

@Thefriendlyone This is dubious advice you are giving. Lenders (as most people) are more than aware that old buildings are not going to be compliant with current building regs. This is not what is happening here.

There has clearly been a surveyors report that is questioning the legality of a loft conversion. The loft conversion is being used as bedrooms. The value of the house is based on this fact.

The house is clearly not worth the original estimated value. Of course the lender is concerned about this, they will be the ones left with the property if the mortgage is not paid.

This is not just a matter of living in an old house. It is an old house with a relatively new problem.

In order to make the loft habitable as bedrooms significant work is required.

Would you want your children sleeping in this loft - what happens in the event of fire?

I did - I felt awful. We some 7 years later haven’t even thought about moving yet. I pulled out because as lovely and amazing the house we look to buy was - it was expensive and a massive commitment. Our neighbours are lovely and kids can walk to and from school - which supports husband and I with working.

With hindsight I don’t regret it. Especially with mortgage rates as they are now. And the guilt lifted as they went onto buy my neighbours house which meant my neighbour’s could follow their dreams :)

Once youngest finished school we can look a little further afield and find the right place.

You’ve said a lot of things the op has not said and made a lot of assumptions. All surveyors reports will say not compliant with current regulations, that’s standard. But you’ve taken it a step further. I am assuming you know the op and know what’s in the report? I am only going on what’s written here

would I wish my children sleeping in there, well currently they sleep in a 400 year old house which is not compliant with any regs, so the answer is about has it been deemed unsafe and if so by whom and in what way. I have asked this question and they op has not responded.

It’s not bizarre at all. It’s standard conveyancing. If an alteration has occurred since buildings regulations were introduced, there is a requirement for a completion certificate to show that building regulations were met.

Often there isn’t a certificate in which case the buyer takes on the risk that the work may not be the right standard and cost them money to put right. We’ve done that before and got bitten badly. But you can also just live with any issues if you want to, and people frequently do. It is though an indication that the work might not be great - whenever it was done.

In this case the issue is that without those completion certificates the rooms can’t be legally counted as bedrooms so as well as the potential risks of a bad conversion, we will own a house with fewer bedrooms than the offer price suggests. To put it right will cost us money.

We have no problems affording the house or we wouldn’t have offered. It’ll probably cost us more to buy a different house as we’ll lose our current mortgage offer. We don’t though necessarily want to take a blank cheque on the work needed and also put up with the inconvenience of building work when one of the reasons we chose the house was that it needed no major work (after the last time we bought when the badly done work without building regs caused us to rack up a lot of cost to keep our house upright).

Well my read of it is that there is surveyors report that points out there has been a loft conversion. The Lender has noted this and checked whether the loft conversion was compliant with building regs (not current building regs but building regs at the time it was done).

It sounds like no-one can evidence this - there is nothing within the deeds or that be found (or that the owners can provide) that shows any building regulation consent for the loft conversion.

Lenders are conservative and risk adverse (particularly at the moment). If the building regulation consent cannot be evidenced, they will work on the basis that no consent was received and the loft conversion is not legal. They will base their valuation on the property accordingly.

My post crossed with Ops