Have you ever collapsed a chain? How did it feel?

[Finallybreathingout]

Very long, sorry!

We are close to exchange on a house; we’re the bottom of the chain as we have already sold ours. Our vendors are buying a house of real sentimental significance to them - they only put the house on the market to grab the chance to buy it. So there is a LOT of emotional investment. They are really nice people and would live very locally, and have welcomed us to the community.

We had a long delay getting our final mortgage offer owing to underwriting issues so have already delayed things. We also changed solicitors as our original one was dreadful and we didn’t have confidence in them, so we have already been crap buyers, much to my mortification. But things were finally running smoothly.

Then enquiries came back and there are no building regs. To cut a very long story short, indemnities won’t cut it, the material value of the house is affected, and we’d need building work which is currently very roughly estimated at about 10% of the purchase price all costs included. We are weighing up whether to ask for a retention or just to pull out. We really didn’t want to do building work, so immediately we are in a situation we’d looked to avoid, and it will cause major inconvenience to the whole family.

Has anyone ever pulled out and collapsed a chain? Did you sleep at night? This is so difficult but I feel I’m putting the feelings of total strangers above my own self interest. We like the house very much but could carry on renting and find another without all these issues. Everyone else involved has their plans ruined, and all the same sunk costs wasted as us. This is awful, and because it’s now so last minute, even if we ask for the retention we’re going to look like those people who gazunder. We’ve already said we would take the fact that the house is old and needs a new boiler and probably rewiring on the chin and not negotiate over all that.

Surely now this has been discovered, if you pulled out the vendors will have to market this as a house with fewer bedrooms anyway so it will be worth less, so you should offer less accordingly if you want to buy the house . Otherwise just pull out, but for sure don't continue as is.

I’ve been in meetings all day.

@SpacetoRoam has summarised my posts fairly well there I think. Not sure what you think is reaching?

We’ve been talking about using the rooms. We are slightly worried how the floors might stand up to our bouncy young children if they are less supported for frequent use than they should be. But the rooms have been used as bedrooms for a long time.

Our broker has said our lender won’t agree to a retention but would vary our loan amount so we need to decide whether we drop the offer substantially and remortgage at the end of the fixed period to fund the work at that point, or just pull out. That’s tonight’s thinking.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Were you close to exchange? Did they talk to you when they became your neighbours?! I’m very aware that we could end up moving into the same area in the future (as we really like it) and would be those horrible people who wrecked all the house sales.

Yes, twice.

Once because they lied when we viewed the house saying building regs were met but they weren't and we found in convayancing. Their fault and they cost everyone time and money so we didn't feel bad.

Another because we weren't 100% on the house, were on the fence about dropping out when a much nicer house came on for cheaper... We viewed it an snapped that up instead. Felt bad but we had to do it. Certainly didn't loose sleep.

Were you just opposed to buying something without building regs or did you have reason to think it would cause a problem? Or was it the lying that bothered you?

Having thought about this quite a bit this afternoon, here is what I would do:

(That is of course unless you just want to cut your losses, and who can blame you?)

First, with the approval of the current vendor, make enquiries with the local authority as to whether there is any record of a building regs application for a loft conversion at the property. It is not unusual for parts of the conversion to be inspected, work gets finished, builder goes off on to other jobs, nobody thinks about getting the paperwork sorted out.

Any conversion would only have to comply with the regulations in place at the time, it does not have to be brought in to line with the regulations in place today. This is why finding out when the work was carried out is so important. Were the vendors the ones who had the conversion carried out?

Then agree with the property owner for a building control inspector from the local authority to visit the house to assess what work needs to happen in order for the conversion to comply with regs. Likely that some parts will need to be exposed to check floor strengthening, RSJ, insulation.

This will give you a list of things that need to be done in order to achieve building regs approval, which can then be costed and a reduction in the price agreed.

As I said in my earlier post, this is all about safety, making sure the structure has been adequately enforced and having suitable fire escape routes. There is zero chance of the local authority taking action against either the current owner, or a future owner.

@Mildura I’m touched that you thought so much!

We are under pressure to exchange within a fortnight as the rest of the chain is worrying about the potential introduction of CGT in the mini-budget. Which is also causing an issue as of course it limits how much we can get done given how backed up everyone is for appointments. Had we not been incredibly lucky to have a builder to turn to we would have waited ages to even get someone to check it out. So I don’t know if trying to do things thoroughly would be possible or we’d just get told no, in which case we’d have to drop out anyway.

We’ve done more or less what you suggest in a light touch way (our seller has already called the council) so it would confirm that, but we still run the risk of unforeseen costs, and need to find the extra money to do any of the work!

We like the house very much but we’re fairly clearheaded. It’s not the one and only dream house so it very much needs to be a real cold light of day pro and cons assessment. And no bloody sentiment about other people.

the rest of the chain is worrying about the potential introduction of CGT in the mini-budget

Well, that would complete the Tory party's suicide mission!! 😂Pretty sure there's almost no chance of it happening.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. Given the potential for some fairly chunky costs, you've really got to do things as diligently as possible.

Very admirable to remain so clearheaded and pragmatic faced with such a situation, not everyone is so capable. And absolutely definitely no sentiment for anyone else involved, look after number one.

You could also find it tricky to get house insurance (valid that is) if you have an unregulated loft conversion.

The house had been purchased by the vendor very cheapely and was basically derelict. They flipped it for sale and refurbished it to the bare minimum standards so we were always concerned they were cutting corners. Went for a quick viewing a few weeks before exchange and it was clear the work was substandard. Their solicitor finally admitted there were no regs after radio silence for a few weeks but we refused to exchange without them. Would have cost a fortune to put right.

I would pull out of this, and feel no guilt. The vendors would have known the issue about no building regulations.

The price difference between a 3 bedroom house and a 5 bedroom house would be significant anywhere in the country.

If you bought this house now, and had to try and sell unexpectedly at some point down the line, it would be very difficult if you hadn't completed the rectifying works.

It sounds like far too much bother for a house you like, but could find alternatives for if you pulled out now.

There is a substantial difference between pulling out of a deal because substantial issues about the home come to light vs your own personal issues. This is clearly the former and you should feel no guilt in reevaluating carefully.

The lender’s actions are very common. If it’s not compliant as a bedroom it can’t be marketed and valued as a bedroom. The issue is the vendors can’t prove it met building regs at the time of construction. Therefore it has to be treated as a storage room.

We recently pulled out (for other reasons) of a house with this situation. The lender’s survey immediately flagged a dodgy conversion and we were asked to sign a document that we wouldn’t use it as anything other than storage. We would have been happy to sign as it was not priced as a bedroom.

A cursory Google revealed how common this is. Most agents know you can’t take the piss and call them bedrooms.

We've pulled out fairly last minute before - the solicitor found there was a right of way across the back garden which no-one had mentioned and couldn't be removed. If we'd known about it from the owners we might have felt differently, but they were really unhelpful when we spoke to them about it, which actually made the decision easier. Five years on and I have no regrets at all, the house went back on the market but didn't sell and as far as I know still hasn't.

As you are bottom of the chain, I'd be tempted to pull out.

You have a lot to lose if you need to do a lot of work and property prices decrease at the same time!

It’s not bizarre at all. It’s standard conveyancing. If an alteration has occurred since buildings regulations were introduced, there is a requirement for a completion certificate to show that building regulations were met

The very premise is totally and utterly inaccurate. There is no requirement after a specific time period. The 7 or 10 year rule applies depending on the issue. As this was built nearly 40 years ago it is totally past any requirements and councils have lost enforcement rights.

In additional there was no requirement for completion certificates before 2013. This requirement was only introduced at this time.

So an extension in the 90s is totally and completely exempt with absolutely no need for either a completion certificate or for it to meet current building regs. I do not understand how you don’t know this and apparently neither does your solicitor or mortgage lender.

which is what makes it completely bizarre.

You are also ignoring the question, if any report has been done by a structural engineer on its safety or not. So I am guessing not.

I don’t know if you are genuinely confused or if you are a couple of time wasters, just trying to find a way to get money off as you can no longer afford it. But you clearly have no intention of buying it at the price you offered, so pull out and stop wasting their time further.

www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/conveyancing/buying-a-house-with-loft-conversion-without-building-regulations-5547

www.redbridge.gov.uk/planning-and-building/building-control/which-type-of-building-regulations-application-will-i-need/

A simple google search shows you are wrong here.

walk away and smile

I genuinely have no idea why you are being so rude to me. I also apologise if I have not seen every question you have posed. We have not had the opportunity to have a structural engineer look at the rooms. It’s only been five working days since the issue was revealed and we are under considerable pressure to make a very quick decision. But an experienced builder has pointed out issues that could a safety risk and suggest that the work was not done thoroughly.

But it’s not the safety issue that is key for us. It’s buying a house with a big risk, because if we have to sell it before we can get the work done we will struggle and potentially lose money, especially in a falling market.

Despite your many comments about this not making sense, and whether we’re talking about a certificate or buildings regs sign off, the fact is that the current situation is not acceptable to either my solicitor or my lender, and this situation is extremely common. If we go ahead and buy this house at its current price we would be fools, and acting against legal advice.

We need to decide today whether we ask for a price reduction and take on risk and building work for a house we do really like, or walk away.

I’m beginning to wonder whether you are my estate agent.

But I deeply resent your continued comments that we are trying this on or trying to disguise a bad financial decision. That is entirely untrue and unfair.

Very informative and puts the kibosh on this purchase.

It's not your fault & tbh in this economic climate I wouldn't think twice about walking away. You don't need that hassle

Maybe it’s how it’s written but you sound both Ill informed and nervous

I hate this attitude!

I've been guilty of putting my heart above my head with property purchases before, but I'd walk away from this one, unless you're happy to take on an expensive project. Walk away with regret, but do not apologise - they could have avoided all of this hassle by being upfront about the issues.

My daughter and her husband discovered just before exchange that the house they were buying was of "non standard construction" (concrete block). They had to find a different mortgage provider but went ahead. They tried to sell last year but as they were being upfront about the issue, anyone interested soon backed off, so they're stuck unless they don't disclose and hope another (sucker) buyer will be so far down the line they won't pull out. This seems to be the approach your vendors have taken.

We are not nervous buyers of a two hundred year old house. We’ve just sold one. We’re not going to start worrying about perfectly normal expenses of a period property.

Exactly, same here. I would still walk away from your purchase. I wonder if there is a link between the posters who tell you to stop being nervous & the conditions of their own properties!