New neighbours building work

[meg54]

We have new neighbours who are doing major renovation work to their "forever" home.
Their property has an existing single storey kitchen extension ( which forms the boundary of their property and ours at the side of the house, extending to 4 metres into their/our garden, front to back. This is now the boundary wall between the two properties, with our garden fence running the length of the gardens.
They applied to the council for planning permission to build directly above the kitchen extension.

We objected.

The council denied our objection.

They cannot build the extension without accessing our property - from our driveway, through our garage, down the stairs, into the garden, removing two of our fence panels.

All the materials for the build will have to use our access, as they bricked up their back kitchen door - the only access they have to the back of the house (houses built on a slope, so one floor up at the back), is a builders ladder, accessible from their living room window.

The extension will also need to be built from our boundary, as
obviously they do not want building materials dragged through their recently very expensively renovated living room.

The scaffolding has to be erected from our side, and will also obstruct our access to the garden, and the cellars, which houses the big freezer and washing machine and DH's workshop.

The more I think about it, the more I think they are CF's.

Any advice wise folk?.

Just say no. It doesn't need to be any more involved than your refusal.

Get a surveyor and a good solicitor

@meg54 a friend of mine is mid building an extension and has a party wall agreement in place as both she and her neighbour are building to the boundary but both their houses are attached on the other side just like yours.

Personally I wouldn’t be allowing access to my garden for this. It’s not your problem that they did it the wrong way round and frankly if they’re that desperate for a bigger upstairs they will have to move. Don’t make it your problem, get proper advice asap.

I dont really understand the issue. If you don’t want them coming through your house and using your garden (and I wouldn’t either) then just say no.

Just say no. They can’t make you accept them and their builders trespassing

Hi OP, I'm no expert but I believe with the consensus view here that the fact that PP has been granted, and that the works permitted can't physically be built without access over your property STILL DOESN'T MEAN that your neighbours are entitled to trespass over your property to build.

What I think it means is that this is the jumping off point for them to negotiate with you what payment would make it worthwhile for you to allow access. To them, their contractors, their heavy machinery, their rubble, their skips, etc etc etc. For months. In order to build an extension that you object to and don't want built.

I assume the answer is that there's no payment they could make that would make it worthwhile. So you say no, and they don't build.

By all means consult a more expert solicitor but if I were you I would definitely just say no. :)

My family is generally accommodating to neighbours. We've allowed access and scaffolding on our side of a boundary for an extension next door, for example. Nice neighbours, friendly builders, all was good. But in this case I think they are taking the whatsit- doing work on their own property first that then makes it necessary to trash yours with builders' crap to keep theirs nice. I'd tell them straight that would be opposing them every step of the way I leagally could do, and maybe they should just tidy up the work they have already had done and move house. Even according to your own admission, they haven't even properly finished off the work they have done so far.

If people want a bigger house, they should either buy a bigger house, or buy a small one with enough land/access that they can extend without being a total pain in the neck to any reasonable neighbour.

Thanks all.

I was trying to accommodate new neighbours, in their "forever home".

Their 1st floor extension is to house a new shower/toilet room as they had turned the existing bathroom to an en suite to their bedroom, meaning visitors/guests had no toilet/wash facilities without going through their bedroom.

It can only be built by demolishing the newly built, open planned, fully fitted, tiled, decorated, very expensive islanded kitchen and building it from inside, or building from our land.

And the boundary wall is not a party wall - it sits completely within their plot.

I was feeling guilty about it until they pissed off on holiday while committing a major parking sin.

And I came to the conclusion they were not naive first time buyers, but fully fledged paid up members of the CF's Club.

So they will not be given permission from me.

It is their problem.

So I do get the point you are semi detached rather than terraced - but how do people think people in terraced houses get building work done ? Materials / scaffolding comes through the house . Or a crane - but hiring a crane would probably have cost more than our other building costs so would not have happened. In a terraced house - we contained all the scaffolding within the footprint of our house / tiny patio - it can be done.

Well done OP! Definitely CFs and very bad at forward planning given the order they have done things. I still think they could do the work from their garden or from their existing first floor but hard to say without a plan - anyway, it’s not your problem.

Be polite but firm and good luck!

Yes Basilisk.
But people in terraces can't build side extensions.

@meg54 - Absolutely agree - without seeing the whole thing my only point was meant to be supportive in that they should be able to build what they want within the boundaries of their house & pissing off the neighbours is not the way to do this if they want a favour .

Sorry if my posts are not helpful but I do wish you well

Aaawwww.

Thanks Basilisk.
Didn't mean to sound snippy.
Having a tough week. Not all neighbour related - although kind of feeling I should be able to draw a diagram, but have never mastered 2D stuff, never mind 3D.

I think we need to hear more about the parking issue!

They are either really stupid going ahead with all that renovation work and not realising the issue of the bathroom or they are the most arrogant CF-eras ever and assumed you’d give permission. Glad to hear you won’t be, OP. And what was the parking thing they did, dying to know!

And the boundary wall is not a party wall - it sits completely within their plot.

Carry on kidding yourself that this is the case, when it clearly isn't. I'm off this thread now. Do come back when/if they serve notice under the Party Wall Act.

Collaborate.

I have the legal paperwork for the original ground floor extension.

Signed off and agreed by the council, the builder, the architect, water board, RIC's surveyor, neighbour's and my solicitors, and both parties.
All of whom maintain, in writing, it does not constitute a party wall.
So there.

We had something similar are neighbours wouldn't allow us access. So we built from our side .
Rough coat render as they built looked dreadful from there side but fuck all the could do about it.
Offer one chance for access and we would have the wall the have to look at everyday rendered .
Materials can be craned not a problem at all just cost .
To be blunt by being a twat you will not stop them ,your bathroom and toilet will be in the shade , you will off pissed them off and damaged neighbour relations.
You can make it awkward abut can't stop them

@rwalker ODFOD, you cracked on, bully for you. No one needs to give you access to their private land to support you.

As for craning - not a chance in hell should any competent crane operator be craning over occupied premises - the HSE would have a fit and the operator would find themselves in court on criminal charges (yes, I absolutely know the law on this one. And used to enforce it). The OP is also under absolutely NO obligation to allow it, and given the risks I'd strongly advise turn to refuse this as well. Bring it all through the house. You want the build? You deal with the dirt and damage not your neighbours.

@pinkstool ODFOD
Thanks for your reply our neighbours had already built the identical extension to ours . .The area we wanted access to is dead space with 40 year old cracked paving slabs that I offered to replace as a thank you.
As for craning over the houses presume you don't need the entire street empty and hopefully co operative people living on the other side the could crane over (unoccupied) premises .

The party wall act has details about a new boundary wall being raised wholly on the building owners land, but abutting the boundary. In those circumstances the Building Owner can invoke the party wall act to raise a section 8 notice to provide necessary access on the neighbouring land to build the thing. The definition of necessary/reasonable is key and what the Party Wall award will determine.

I provided links earlier. Do have a read.

Some party wall surveyors have argued that access is not required, but most agree that access to a neighbour's land to build a boundary wall is covered by the Party Wall Act (even though the wall itself is not a party wall).

I am just starting on this journey with a development next door, wholly built on their land but they have issued a party wall notice to build the wall. Still waiting to hear what access they actually want, I suspect oversailing for a piling machine, and a safety zone, plus the actual wall building bit. I'd love to say no to stop the build, but it seems that the law is not on my side.

Pick your party wall surveyor well - I wish I'd gone with a pedantic anti-access one, but I think I've appointed one who will roll over. The question of the terms of access and compensation will be 'interesting'. Access would only be for the new wall - not the rest of the build though, so they will still need access from their side to do the rest of the structure.

[quote rwalker]@pinkstool ODFOD
Thanks for your reply our neighbours had already built the identical extension to ours . .The area we wanted access to is dead space with 40 year old cracked paving slabs that I offered to replace as a thank you.
As for craning over the houses presume you don't need the entire street empty and hopefully co operative people living on the other side the could crane over (unoccupied) premises .[/quote]
That’s is t the case here though. The neighbours want access through the OPs garage and house, and reading between the lines it’s because they have done their own work in a daft order.

@RestingPandaFace
Get that but a victory can become a home goal in the long run .

OP could be left with an unfinished eyesore that she has to look at and nothing they can do.

Also fast forward 4 years and next door needed access to my garden to fell a tree in there's. Couldn't careless and said yes no problem but they were cringing having to ask.

With in reason I'd accommodate to an extent rather than a flat no .

If they want to build it they need to find a solution that does not involve coming in to your garden.

@meg54 “But people in terraces can't build side extensions.”

Of course they can. Side return extensions are really popular, especially in Victorian terraces.

But as to the original question, I think you’ve chosen right to not give them access - it sounds like it would be an utter nightmare caused by people who wouldn’t care about the imposition on you at all.