New neighbours building work

[meg54]

We have new neighbours who are doing major renovation work to their "forever" home.
Their property has an existing single storey kitchen extension ( which forms the boundary of their property and ours at the side of the house, extending to 4 metres into their/our garden, front to back. This is now the boundary wall between the two properties, with our garden fence running the length of the gardens.
They applied to the council for planning permission to build directly above the kitchen extension.

We objected.

The council denied our objection.

They cannot build the extension without accessing our property - from our driveway, through our garage, down the stairs, into the garden, removing two of our fence panels.

All the materials for the build will have to use our access, as they bricked up their back kitchen door - the only access they have to the back of the house (houses built on a slope, so one floor up at the back), is a builders ladder, accessible from their living room window.

The extension will also need to be built from our boundary, as
obviously they do not want building materials dragged through their recently very expensively renovated living room.

The scaffolding has to be erected from our side, and will also obstruct our access to the garden, and the cellars, which houses the big freezer and washing machine and DH's workshop.

The more I think about it, the more I think they are CF's.

Any advice wise folk?.

I agree with the others. Just say no and keep saying no to permission for access. How they build it isn't your problem. You absolutely don't have to give them access. I would probably mention this to them as soon as possible and hopefully they will drop their ideas rather than waiting for builders to arrive.

In the event, they arranged the scaffolding access through their adjoining neighbours.
Unfortunately they did not tell us, (or the scaffolders). Which resulted in a massive hissy fit (scaffolders), the road being blocked for three and a half hours, and the police being called.
DH blamed it on me for giving them "The Death sStare".

I didn't really understand this. They arranged access through their other neighbor's garden, so why did it affect you? Not being snarky, I'm just trying to understand. But it sounds pretty epic!

Just say no. Keep saying no if necessary.

You seem to be getting very worked up about something you can prevent with a two letter word.

Yeah just say no. I have done an extension over an existing garage with foundations ect maybe unsuitable for building above. We just had to have a structural engineer calculate beams that had to support the top part for building regs approval. Expensive but necessary. My neighbours wouldn't agree scaffolding on their side which was fair enough so we had some weird structure that suspended in mid air. There will be a workaround with materials probably having to be craned over the property. Will block the road again for a while.

I just don't understand at all, why they can't build it from their own garden? All materials get taken through the house, and build directly above the existing extension from their own garden.

@meg54
What is their future plan for access to their garden, generally, if they’re currently using ladders.
That’s the most bonkers bit to me.

People have said they have't checked to see if current extension will take the weight of being built on.

If they have the plans from the original extension it will detail the footings and it can be calculated from that .
no need for any psychical checks to be done .

I don’t understand why this thread is still dragging on. You have been told countless times you don’t HAVE to allow access, yet here we are stressing about hobby equipment and birds when they haven’t even asked for access yet. This is insanity. Stop stressing.

IF they ask, say no. The end.

I think OP is just in shock and incredulous at how insane her neighbours are. And wanting us here for support if the shit hits the fan when they do ask, and she does say no.

Which seems fine to me - I mean, on the scale of insane expectations of cheeky fuckers I think they are scoring pretty high.

How you doing OP? And when might the request come, do you know?

@NothingIsWrong - I knew someone would know !

If it were me I would want to know that those pits have been checked and verified so next doors house doesn't fall down . We have never had a 2nd story extension upon an extension. ( have had mansard roof ) but know people who have to have those pits dug to check ( and yes not all the way round like a moat - just some exploratory things )

Still not sure having seen the photo why a party wall would not apply - but again - not an expert.

We once had a big refurbishment of a relatively small house - by which I do not mean paint and kitchens but staircases moved floors ( inc joists replaced - the amount of money we spent on a qualified chap who would calculate load bearing etc - well - I choose to forget - but that was his job & I am confident the house will not fall down - worth every penny. I can't remember his exact title - construction engineer ? Anyway he specified steels inter alia . So he did not do the twiddly fancy bits which make the house look pretty , but he did the bits which makes sure the house is not going to fall down. I thank him for it.

Just recalled whilst cleaning the fridge - it was a structural engineer we had in & a relative who has an attached garage was told they would need one as some single story extensions are fit for purpose e.g. garages , back victorian extensions are fine for how they are but the foundations may not be enough to build upon - if you are worried about this I would definitely call council & I do think that Building control is separate from planning permission. Their job is to keep the house safe. So also e.g. - fireproof exit from bedrooms to front door , electrics etc etc. They do an important job & if it were my neighbour - 2 issues - the bringing the building materials but I would also want to know given how close that extension is to your property have they made sure it is safe and stable to build on according to the building inspector / structural engineer . I suspect if you flag it they will check for you - still think that would count as party wall having seen the photographs . but again - not an expert.

OP - my apology is due to you. It seems it is not a party wall after all. Bottom of page 5 of this makes that clear assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523010/Party_Wall_etc__Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf

This is so provided the side wall of their house does not straddle the boundary, but I note that you seem to use it as the side wall of your garage. This part of the wall may amount to a party wall type B, but the bit they want to build on, if it stands wholly on their ground, cannot be built using the PWA to gain access to your land.

If I were you I'd be screwing those fence panels down tight.

Thanks Collaborate.
There is paperwork (going back 80 years) that allows our garage to be attached to the neighbours wall, with the permission of the (then) owners.
However, when we had it re-roofed and new doors put on we made provision for it to be free standing from our end, so we could have it as an independent structure, just sealant attached to neighbouring wall.

@HappilyHadesBound

I just don't understand at all, why they can't build it from their own garden? All materials get taken through the house, and build directly above the existing extension from their own garden.

If their current access is via a number of builders' ladders, I can see difficulties in getting brick hods, concrete mixers, bathroom equipment etc into the garden.

Interesting thread and I’m invested now in knowing what the parking issue was OP!

As an aside, building control won’t sign it off unless it conforms to the structural engineers drawings and any SE would want to see that the footings are sufficient to take another storey. Structural calcs should form part of their architects building regs drawings package. Unless they plan to employ a cowboy builder who says he doesn’t need drawings!

Any scaffolding there would cause you a nightmare for access, they’re being totally unreasonable if they expect you to accommodate them.
Please come back and update!