Need to build extension that will most likely cover at least half the patio

[Fressia123]

I've been reading about the "half the land around the original house". We live in an end of terrace with a tiny patio (3x5m) and need to build some sort of extension that will create a 4th bedroom. Is this impossible?

Why so anti the loft conversion? Some can be done without needing planning permission.

It would be the perfect solution.

Because the loft is about 4/5ft high. There are no dormers anywhere around here with the same type of house as us so I'm almost 100% confident they're a no no.

As someone mentioned of we can't solve it, I think we'll definitely end up sleeping in the dining room (or reception room) for the foreseeable future.

I can't draw on the floor plan because you appear to have deleted it, but how about conservatory across the back bit, to level the living room with the kitchen (not divided off, make it part of the room) and then cut a chunk off the front of the room to make a bedroom? From memory there was a window at the front it could have. That gives you a living room more or less the same size it currently is (albeit part conservatory), and an additional small bedroom. Indoors.

I find it so weird that you keep referring to DSS's parents as if they were a separate entity when presumably one of them is your DP who was involved in the choice of the house that you and he bought this year?!

Is it a relatively new house? Or in a conservation area? Because if not, certain dormers can be built as permitted development and not need planning. The former would allow for increased head height.

I only mention them as they have "jurisdiction" over what's acceptable and what isn't. I like the idea of the conservatory + small bedroom/snug.

That's not my point! Wasn't your DP involved in choosing this house? Did none of this occur to him then?

He was, but he's pretty much the type of "we'll figure out/ will sort itself out later" type of attitude.

The house is Victorian/Edwardian.

"Whatever room he ends up getting it's all his. Nobody would use it when he's not here."

Utter madness. None of the other children have that luxury, why is DSS so special? He has 3 siblings and his dad doesn't have a 5 bedroom house!

I think we can’t go further with this until OP talks to an architect. They might be able to come up with something and will be able to answer questions we can’t like are dormers allowed. It’s clear you can’t make 4 beds out of a 3 bed house unless you use one one of the reception rooms or subdivide one of the bedrooms. One of my friends subdivided a room with a simple stud wall that can come down again when family dynamics change. Yes, that room now doesn’t have a window but he’s a 14 year old boy and didn’t seem bothered so long as he has his own space.

You've not long moved in here but you didn't think of this before you brought? And to be clear i mean the children's father as well, no not just you.

Are you going to leave the back door unlocked so he can get into the house or does he have to knock and wait to be let in? Esp considering there's no loo. Traipsing outside for aweeis fine in summer, not so much when it's -2 outside or there's a foot of snow.

Of my 13 to offered to sleep in the garden of assume he felt so pushed out of the family that he might as well not be a part of it, or he was working out how to get his mates into it once you're all in bed.

Baby needs to stay with you. If that means a temporary wall goes in to give him a wall between your noise then from me. He doesn't need a big room. He doesn't "deserve" a big room. Girls share. Boy keeps the box.

DSS has the box room.
Girls continue to share.
Baby and future babies have your bedroom.
You and DH have the dining room or living room.

Spare reception room has the baby grand, WFH area, guitars, dog and cat.
Build a conservatory as a family room with a fold down table for eating.

I honestly think you and your husband are just making your own lives difficult, you with all the stuff you need and him with all his rules on a permanent room when he can’t afford to house all his own kids and is a low earner. Never heard anything like it.

A conservatory is perfectly fine to sleep in, you can put blinds and heating in. Christ you can even carpet it.

The bottom line is there is no solution either of you will apparently find acceptable other than the one which places a thirteen year old at risk and yourselves and your other children also if you get done for neglect.

Honestly the pair of you need to give your heads a wobble. You’re adults. He’s acting like he’s daddy war bucks, making all these expensive rules whilst scratching his arse to afford the kids he has, and you not wishing to be inconvenienced. And then the pair of you wanting more babies.

It’s absolute madness.

You know what, we're doing this wrong. We're coming at it from addressing possible solutions while only defining the problem in dribs and drabs, and no wonder it's not getting anyone anywhere. First step to finding a solution is to properly frame the problem.

The main requirement, as I understand it, is to create a permanent, private space for your stepson to sleep in (and presumably store some quantity of belongings?). Is that right? (Note that I don't say 'bedroom'. Good solutions to this problem might not resemble a traditional bedroom!)

The main constraints are around budget, planning limitations, existing large items like the piano, and (the biggie, really) your partner's veto.

Looked at like that, my immediate thought is to be inspired by like those Japanese hotels - I'd think about creating a little pod for him somewhere in the house, but being creative in terms of shape/size/layout/function. I know this is going to sound a bit Harry Potter, but what's under the stairs at the moment? Could something be put there?

That would be sensible advice, but We are not looking at it wrong, because there is no solution possible that they will both accept. Other than shove the kid in the garden, lock the door at night and give him ans outside loo,

But @Persipan does have a point and that's why we're calling some architects.

The garden idea came only because with our very limited vision it's the only place where we can see a decent enough room with all the things that he'd need/want and that won't be as costly as a traditional extension. That being said the patio is tiny so we don't have a lot of leeway in any way.

Again, an architect might be able to see things differently and move a wall add a bit here and there, something that would at least create another boxroom. Od be happy with that, DSS would be happy with that. DP thinks it's going to cost the moon and the stars because it's an external wall. I don't. I think there's probably some more creative way that I haven't been able to think about.

And yes believe me when we were house hunting I almost had a heart attack because NOTHING was good enough. We oddly both liked this house even though it's obviously too small. I also thought I'd be doing better financially but that's a completely separate matter (and have written about it).

not getting the outrage here. we have a garden shed studio that DS often sleeps in through choice.

his parents see it as a complete redline for him to share with the baby (I see it as a better option but that's hypothetical as they don't fit in the boxroom)

You've reffered to dsc's 'parents' several times. Your dss's mother has NO say in sleeping arrangements for the dsc when at your house, beyond it being safe and comfortable.

If she's having an impact or input into this decision you should shut that shit down NOW or you're setting yourself up for bigger problems than this.

The more I read the more I think you have a dh problem rather than a space issue. He says no, he's refused, he won't consider.

Dss doesn't NEED his own room.
Splitting the largest room would be entirely reasonable.

Tell your dh to grow the fuck up and consider the reasonable, realistic options available... And to STOP asking his ex for her input as it has bugger all to do with her.

Having seen the way a student landlord has turned a modest 3 bedroom house into a 5 bedroom house it's amazing what you can do moving a few walls.
I would personally get the log cabin and use it as a home office and music room. I know someone who had one as a playroom and it's now a bar. It has an electricity supply so it has heating or fans according to season. It's actually rather attractive to look at.

Do exactly what @Persipan says. Find a good architect and tell them how you need to live. Don't tell them what you think you should do - let them do their job and tell you how the space can work best for you.
Very different circumstances but doing that has worked really well for us - our plans are very different than I expected when we bought about fixer upper and I am much more excited.

@Fressia123

And yes believe me when we were house hunting I almost had a heart attack because NOTHING was good enough. We oddly both liked this house even though it's obviously too small. I also thought I'd be doing better financially but that's a completely separate matter (and have written about it).

I just don't understand why the one you agreed upon is one where you can't fit all your children. It makes no sense and now you're going to end up with a teenage boy sleeping on the garden, seperate the the main building without a loo and pray to God he doesn't do anything stupid. And yes I'm such he's lovely and sensible blah blah but there's plenty of years for that to change.

@Handsnotwands

not getting the outrage here. we have a garden shed studio that DS often sleeps in through choice.

Often sleep in through choice suggests he has a to in the main house. How old is he?

Turn the middle bedroom into a room with multiple private sleeping pods (look online for ideas). Leave some space for wardrobes/ chest of drawers.

The box room can be a playroom for the baby/toddler/girls.

Get two smaller outdoor pods - one as a private day space for DSS and one as a private day space for the girls.

Make the furniture in the private day spaces lockable/stackable/storable in both pods and then you and your partner can share with the kids for WFH purposes. He can share with his son and you can share with the girls. A he shed and a she shed! But fancy.

Again - pods for all!

Coming at this from a different angle, you said you tried 3 different mortgage companies.

Did you try LondonandCountry mortgages who don't charge any money to do a search for you, compare the whole of the market and are recommended by MoneySavingExpert?

If not contact them and talk to them about the income you receive from another country. Worth a look rather than the solutions you are coming up with.