Fife/Angus Scotland Vs Home Counties England - to move or not to move

[InsertSassyUsernameHere]

Advice needed please.

I'm English, from the south of England.
My partner is from the northern isles of Scotland, and we live an hour north of Edinburgh.

I do not like it. I miss being down south, I miss being close enough to London to just hop on the train and see the sights etc.
I really miss the weather. It's so much colder, wetter and windier up here than I imagined.

We have been here for several years, and our children (10, seven) have been here most of their lives, so are settled in various activities (cubs, brownies, swimming etc). They are home educated, so no ties to school. My children both feel the weather too, and would be happy to move south.

My husband has finally said he'd look for a job down south. It has taken me YEARS of pushing to get him to even consider it, despite telling him I'm utterly miserable up here. But now, I worry about starting over with the kids re getting them into all the activities they like (waiting lists for various classes).
I also have big concerns about the state of the country, with the Tories destroying so much and at least we have some level of protection in Scotland with the SNP.
I worry about losing the free university options up here if we move.
But I also think the job opportunities are much better for my children down south, and they might not want to go to university up here, or even at all.

And if we bite the bullet and get a house down south, it will be worth more to them when they need a leg up when they buy their own properties. As it is, houses don't increase much up here, and I worry about not leaving them enough to help them.

If we move, we could only afford a small house with a small garden. Up here we could afford a nicer house, with a big garden (we moved in a rush, so are looking at moving anyway, to a better home. Whether that is in the same area and I accept my lot, or, we make the move, is the big dilemma.)

I feel torn.

What should be my key considerations?

I am NOT happy here, but, my children come first and I want what's best for their futures, but also their childhoods.

Hi @insertsassyusernamehere
I tend to set my diary for when easyJet release their seats and book ahead then book my own hotel. It's true you do get more last minute deals in london, it takes a bit more planning up here. Because I live in a city it's a reasonably priced taxi ride to the airport. All very easy.

I am older, nearly 50, and I agree things are tough for the younger crowd, I see Scotland as a great place to grow up and I'm glad I made the choice to move here. I don't see it as a place you cant have a career. I would choose where you are 100 times over living in the likes of Hitchin.

It's horses for courses and each to their own though, so you have to make the choice that makes you happy.

I’ve read most of the thread and it’s clear to me that in your heart you want to bi in the South. I don’t get any sense of you wanting to stay in Scotland unless it’s about trying to consider things from your families point of view .
I love Scotland - and that helps me put up with the rubbish weather and all the other things that are wrong with it. Your are nowhere near feeling like that . Having said that I now live In an urban area. I grew up in a small Scottish village and couldn’t wait to move away. I have never returned.
You seem to have made more sacrifices than your dh. Maybe it’s your turn now. The dc will quickly grow up and follow their own paths anyway. Sound# like you will support them emotionally and financially wherever you end up and that’s the most important thing

St Albans and Harpenden are lovely but pos not villagey - it’s quite busy in st a. Have fun exploring

I've moved around the UK a fair bit over the years, currently near Glasgow.

I wouldn't say that home counties weather is substantially better than Eastern Scotland (or my albeit limited experience of Glasgow)...

It's maybe a little warmer but generally the weather patterns are similar - further south is maybe meh drizzle rather than actual rain, but you still need a coat.

During lockdown we had better weather in Glasgow than my in-laws did in Cambridgeshire - we skyped every day so easier to compare than normal!

Cantarina, I like a last-minute holiday bargain, not planning holidays too far in advance. I usually do DIY because it's cheaper and we prefer the freedom, but occasionally I want to find a bargain package, because otherwise they are a bit above budget.
Why is Scotland a great place to grow up, in your opinion? Maybe I'm missing something! I mean, it's ok, it's mainly the weather, I find it so limiting.

Bakeoff, without wishing to sound like a martyr, my children's happiness and prospects are tantamount to me, so if I really felt we were all better off up here, I'd suck it up. A nicer home will fix a big part of my unhappiness, the weather would fix another part. I'd push to have more trips to London and more holidays in the sun, if we did settle here.
My children both want to live in a village. I'm looking for one that still has decent transport connections and isn't too far from a major town and city. Why did you hate village life? I don't want to make our final move and it be yet another dreadful mistake.
I have indeed made more sacrifices, and now I'm vulnerable (less employable, having been out of work for ten years), but I desperately wanted to stay home with my kids for their early years, so I feel it was worth it, and lucky I got maximum time with them. As a 'trailing spouse' I moved wherever he got jobs, none have been my choice of where to live, and wouldn't be, and each has been a wrong move career-wise anyway. I wish we'd have just stayed where we were. Oh well.
I want to be ABLE to support the kids financially, that's one of the big issues. Up here, we buy a house for £350k, it's worth £400k in 15-20 years (in this area). We buy down south, and we could double that, thereby giving the kids a much better headstart if we downsize when they are ready to settle down. This is a huge source of my anxiety.

Thanks, newgirls.

Very interesting, Random! It's been the opposite for me - all my southern friends talking about heatwaves and a wonderful summer (with photos on Facebook making me jealous), while it's rained here for much of it.

My comparison is to London I guess, not to a commuter town so there is a difference. What I like about a Scotland childhood is access to the great outdoors (albeit when the weather is good!) + being able to live in a nice property in a city of a good size with all the facilities that offers.

I like the feeling of space you get in Scotland, London and the SE is so overcrowded and busy. Less traffic, places aren't crowded. The educational opportunities are great - I moved near a great school and of course, assuming it lasts, there is a free university education with great unis to choose from. I guess if you are home schooling schools are not so much a selling point.

Music is important to me and there is the real heartbeat of that in Scotland - my boy has had fantastic music tuition at reasonable cost. Friends in London have scrambled to find a good tutor. Lots of concerts, vibrant arts scene. We dip into the Edinburgh festival every year which is fantastic.

The overcrowding I experienced in London which meant that things were under strain, I don't experience here. No trouble getting a good NHS dentist, our doctor's surgery are great, I get an appointment same day if needed. Less traffic, shopping centres aren't heaving, a slightly slower pace which suits me.

I totally agree with you that the weather is rotten though. I don't think you should focus on downsizing to release equity for your kids or assume what will happen in the property market but you maybe should think about where you want to be for the rest of your life, if that is down south then maybe you should just make the move now.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that out. You make excellent points, most of which have given me pause, and I really must consider these things carefully. We would have to live outside of London, so maybe it's not so bad re traffic, appointments etc out a bit. At the same time, we want to be around more people, especially as we home ed and there will just more people for my kids to meet, so being more populated is a bit more of a pro than a con.
I'm not against school, and we might well send them at secondary age, depending on a few factors. So I definitely want that as an option.

I'd happily settle anywhere warm, in my golden years. I don't feel like this next home has to be the one we grow old in. I'd really be happy to downsize to an apartment when we are old, and know my kids can afford to give their kids a home with a garden. I'd hope to live close enough to both kids (if they'll have me!), though of course they could end up abroad in opposite directions - or even just one in Lands' End and one in John o'Groats. For now, I want to focus on their childhoods and early adult lives.

I am really torn re all you say.

I absolutely hate this weather. But maybe it will toughen them up. I'm a right wimp! The rest of it, I must think very hard on. Though I do think, we can do several years down south and if it's not a better move, we move back up here.

The advantage of stable house prices, is that your DC might have a chance of buying their own hone, when the time comes. This is especially true if they have not had to take out a loan for fees (I know it works more like a tax )

We hear a lot about how stand-off-Ish people in the south/east can appear to be.

Do you have friends where you are now? Having moved around a lot, I find I can stand a lot of discomfort, if I am in touch with 'kindred spirits'. Is there anything you could DH I to widen your circle of friends?

With regards to helping children on the housing ladder, if that's an aim of yours then it is very hard to achieve in the SE unless you're quite well off. Personally I am so lucky to have a home here that I did buy but only because dh is a bit older than me and had bought in a really shit part, moved several times and built up equity before we met. We couldn't afford our home now (just sold for 550k). So many of my counterparts (late 30's) can't afford to buy even with a parental contribution. 2 bed semis where I am are 400k. Where I grew up all my peers bought at 21-23 with minimal parental help (maybe 5k)- 2 bed semis about 150k. That's just not possible in the SE.

@roowig2020 is right, the house prices are crazy down south. Your children would likely be able to afford property if they settle in Scotland, whereas it will always be a struggle, even with help in the South East.

These threads always mystify me, I live in the Firth of Forth in Scotland and I can easily say the weather the last 4/5months has been great, lots of warm sunny days, do people expect tropical weather all year round?
Living near London sounds awful to me, overpriced houses, congestion, millions of people in a small area.
There are 100s of pretty villages here in Scotland with thriving communities, look beyond the end of your nose!
This is a wonderfully diverse and beautiful country that you’re judging on whatever area you live in, plenty ugly down south.

Maybe come down here and rent for a year? Might be the only way to really know x

Finally, I have friends up here, but my absolute best friend lives abroad. Everyone is lovely here. I just don't feel at home. Probably because it was never meant to be long term. If we decide it is, perhaps things will feel better.

Roowig, I know it's cheaper up north, of course. But maybe it's because there are more pros to living south. If we settle here, now, it might be impossible for our children to move south. If we move south, they have the option. It's only going to get harder to live in the south, I feel we should bite the bullet for them now. Though I also fearctust comes with a risk.
cantarina, the prices really are crazy. It definitely does concern me that it will mean we are mortgaged to the hilt, and the risks that come with that.

SBT, I guess people have different standards for what makes sunny weather, and it's what we are used to. For me, the summer is utterly crap. A few sunny days does not a summer make.

Which are the pretty villages? I'm open to looking. And putting up with the weather.

Oops, Newgirls, left you off there.
Yes, probably. Though that is much more expensive than a mortgage. And will add to my not feeling settled in a home if I know it's only temporary.

I live in the SE on the border of Surrey and Hampshire. Small market town surrounded by lovely countryside, just over an hour on a direct train into Waterloo. Great schools if you want them and can get a decent 4 bed detached for £500k.

What you want in the South is possible if you go to the right places. It definitely sounds as though your heart is in the South. As you homeschool can you come down for an extended holiday? Would your DH's work allow it? Get an air BNB and try actually living normal life for a few months.

where are the pretty villages
You’ve lived here several years, have you not been beyond your own area?
Scotland is a beautiful country, stop being blinkered, have you never looked on Rightmove? 🙄🙄

Knapp Inchture, Perthshire
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72290083.html
A wee example ^^

I've been reading this on and off as I am from England living in Scotland.
What I can't understand is your assertion that your children can never move down south. Mine have! One here. One sunny south. One sunny abroad. One northern England. One abroad/here. One still at home.. The pull to London is still strong for mine and others' children. You don't have to pay for it. They will fund themselves.

Sunshine, DH could not, with his current job, do that. Plus I'm not sure it would give us anough of a feel, it would still just feel like a long holiday. I'm actually really not sure how we make it happen, because it's a big gamble to move then decide we are better off up north.

SBT, of course I have. I was asking for your recommendations for pretty villages. It wasn't saying there aren't any. Rightmove are pretty crap up here though, everything is on espc, pspc or tspc, none of which are as user friendly as Rightmove. That property is gorgeous. What is inchture like?

725, yes, maybe for young adults now. The way things are going, it is getting harder and harder. Mine are primary aged. In 20 years, I fear moving south will be extremely hard for the young. And I want to make it easier for them of they do. Plus for myself - it would be my preference, if I was young, free and single. So if they do want to move south, we couldn't even follow them in 20 years, as we could not afford it.

*enough! No idea how I typed 'anough' 😀🤔🙄

It is a lovely village with necessary amenities, small schools plus you’re only a short drive to Dundee or Perth and can hop on a train anywhere. The lovely rural lifestyle but close enough to the cities.

SBT, thanks.

Any other pretty villages? If we stay here, I'd quite like to be closer to St.Andrews.

Pretty villages are dependent on budget as some are more expensive than others.
Do you drive?as you’ll not want too rural if you don’t, I can suggest others but the best thing to do is get out and drive about.
Stirling/Dunblane is lovely, further down you have places like Linlithgow, various others within commuting of Edinburgh.

Schoolhill, Ceres, KY15
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-96890987.html
Another, only 9 miles from St Andrews

It was ages ago - but, I just meant it sounded a bit like you weren’t very happy with your DH’s choices and that he was happy with where you are and you want something different... and that sort of issue between you two wouldn’t really be resolved by moving, is all. I could be wrong, it was just how I was reading your posts.

Pretty villages in fife? Ooft.. Falkland, Elie and earlsferry, Pittenweem, Crail, St. Andrews isn’t exactly a village, lol, but it’s pretty... the top half of fife is mostly nice tbh. It’s the bottom half that can be a bit... industrial.