Fife/Angus Scotland Vs Home Counties England - to move or not to move

[InsertSassyUsernameHere]

Advice needed please.

I'm English, from the south of England.
My partner is from the northern isles of Scotland, and we live an hour north of Edinburgh.

I do not like it. I miss being down south, I miss being close enough to London to just hop on the train and see the sights etc.
I really miss the weather. It's so much colder, wetter and windier up here than I imagined.

We have been here for several years, and our children (10, seven) have been here most of their lives, so are settled in various activities (cubs, brownies, swimming etc). They are home educated, so no ties to school. My children both feel the weather too, and would be happy to move south.

My husband has finally said he'd look for a job down south. It has taken me YEARS of pushing to get him to even consider it, despite telling him I'm utterly miserable up here. But now, I worry about starting over with the kids re getting them into all the activities they like (waiting lists for various classes).
I also have big concerns about the state of the country, with the Tories destroying so much and at least we have some level of protection in Scotland with the SNP.
I worry about losing the free university options up here if we move.
But I also think the job opportunities are much better for my children down south, and they might not want to go to university up here, or even at all.

And if we bite the bullet and get a house down south, it will be worth more to them when they need a leg up when they buy their own properties. As it is, houses don't increase much up here, and I worry about not leaving them enough to help them.

If we move, we could only afford a small house with a small garden. Up here we could afford a nicer house, with a big garden (we moved in a rush, so are looking at moving anyway, to a better home. Whether that is in the same area and I accept my lot, or, we make the move, is the big dilemma.)

I feel torn.

What should be my key considerations?

I am NOT happy here, but, my children come first and I want what's best for their futures, but also their childhoods.

I actually feel the SNP is deliberately destroying the education system to produce uneducated SNP voters with no understanding of economics. By and large, people pro independence are generally not those with any real grip on the realities. Lovely people, but completely gripped by “freedom”. You can see this from the fact that NS is the only one in government with any real intelligence. It almost amuses me what her reaction to their incompetence must be

Sassy - we live in a town that's not very nice and has become more run down since we live here. If we'd moved to an outlying village our perception might be different. Most of their school and college friends don't live in the town.

I also thought I'd just move to where my kids are living and perhaps we will when close to retirement many years from now. I thought we would move again when not tied to schools but the reality of uprooting our lives and both finding new jobs in our 50s, whilst paying for university is very different.

Do you not expect to put down roots anywhere between now and retirement? You do need to live your own life and establish your own networks, because your children will be teens and then adults with lives of their own... You have no idea where they'll want to live. Your children are important but they should not be your whole life, and you won't be theirs.

I think the fact that you haven't made efforts to put down roots where you are is a big factor in the unhappiness.

If you move to the SE but don't make efforts to put down roots and build networks, is there a possibility you'll be similarly unhappy? Has your DH built friendship networks where you are?

Also, on the house price issue, if you live in a small home in the SE, and your children also want to live in the SE, you are not going to be able to free up sufficient cash by downsizing (because you'll already be in a small place).

My advice - moving may be the best thing, but stop thinking about it in terms of kids clubs, or buying your children houses in the SE when they're older, or a temporary place to live until you follow your children to where they choose to live. Where do YOU want to be, where do YOU want to put down roots? Weather will be a factor, but community is just as important imo.

I am intrigued as to where you live. Is it NE Fife or nearer Dundee?

I like both those places but can see why not for everyone. Have you met nice people you call friends? It can be very hard to like where you live if you feel you don’t fully belong

It sounds like you won't ever settle here OP. I say 'here' because I'm also north of Edinburgh. The difference is I absolutely love it and (other than the SNP/indy horror show) wouldn't change a thing. Even the weather. The quality of life we have here is incredible - schools, amenities, housing, countryside, culture, history, beaches, city life nearby.

To me, the South of England sounds horrendously cramped and overpriced and I couldn't spend more than a few days in London. To you, it feels like home, and I think you have to listen to your gut. What I would say is I don't think your children will have better opportunities or anything of the sort down south. DH and I are both high earners/professionals and fully expect our children to be the same (if they want to be). I don't think they will be disadvantaged on the job market, or really any way by being raised Up North. If anything, we have a lot more spare cash by living here, meaning they have a lifestyle I could only have dreamed of when I was growing up.

It sounds like your main issue with where you are is the weather. The weather around London is much much better. However aside from that there are many positives about to it area compared to south east. Some of which you may not realise are positives until you don’t have them.

• Traffic! People everywhere (so having to pre book most things). Stuff like getting your car serviced its so busy to get an appointment.
• Over-competitiveness amongst parents/kids. People seem more busy and in my experience more families in SE have both parents working and often FT.
• Expensive, everything costs more in SE not just housing
• is your husband going to have to commute? Does he want to?

And of course 6 months of the year the weather is pretty rubbish still! And your kids will not have access to “free” Uni in Scotland if you move to England irrespective of where they/you were born. Scotland sees Scottish people as those who live there and make their life there irrespective of their country of birth.

I think you are romanticising life in the South East/ London...

As a Londoner, I can tell you the city is not the place to be right now in the middle of a pandemic and the job market isn't great either.

You will move to a ridiculously expensive region where your money won't get you much in term of a house. A house in a nice village in a commutable area will cost a lot of money. Your kids will have to pay thousands to get to university and transport is costly...

Brexit has poisoned the climate in the country and we are still to see the full effect.

Frankly I would at least wait until the pandemic passes and you can assess the full impact of Brexit before considering any move back to England.

OP - Have you considered other areas? With better weather than Scotland, but cheaper housing than the south east? There are lots of beautiful places that are commutable to Leeds, Manchester or Newcastle.

Ok, those places do have smaller jobs markets than London, but at this stage you have no idea what your children will want to do with their lives. You have to plan what's best for you, because wherever you choose - you will almost certainly end up living there longer than your kids will.

I agree that you are romanticising the south east and London (I'm a former Londoner). The fact is that unless you actively try to establish a network and put down roots somewhere (which it doesn't sound like you've done where you are), nowhere will feel like home.

I wouldn’t say that the OP is romanticising London and the SE and there are many positives about it. I live right on the edge of London having moved from abroad after uni. I did spend a few months in Aberdeen so have a bit of a comparison. Scotland is stunning and a lot emptier (my family always comment about how built up the coutryside around London is). However, we can get to beautiful hills in 20 mins or to the beach in an hour (lovely weather a lot of the time). The train into central London takes 30mins and if you’re into cultural pursuits, you just never tire of it with all the museums, theatres, exhibitions, concerts etc. It truly is amazing from that point of view so will be a better place for some.

JoJo, maybe £500k, could stretch of he gets a better than expected salary.

Sorry, missed a raft of comments. Will reply now ...

Called you: if we are going to move out if the area, it's going to be down south, or we will have all the hassle of starting over, when it's really the south of England and ease of access to London that I miss.
It's not that I need an English place up here, I really don't notice any difference between English and Scottish people, whatsoever. It's mainly my anxiety about the children's job prospects, the dire weather here, and the lure of London.

TD, same then. Where I live feels run down, quite high drug problems, and it's UGLY. Ugly buildings, ugly streets, and I come from a pretty little town down south and it really bothers me. :/
I'm also anxious about how best to help the kids in the future.

500k is a decent enough budget. Obvs not the sort of place you’d get in Scotland, but even in outer London you could get 3-4 bedrooms + a half decent garden. Out in Kent or Sussex even more than that so a perfectly reasonable family homes.

Receptacle, I'd be happy to downsize to a small flat when the time comes, and free up cash so my kids can raise their kids in better homes than we are able to. I'm so concerned about the state of the country and its just getting harder for average people to get on. I know it's not the MN mantra, but these kids ARE my life, and it will make me happy making them happy and as secure as possible.

I want to be down south. The issue is pulling the kids from their clubs here, and starting over. Much easier if I didn't have to consider them, but I do. They are both happy to move, but they don't understand all the consequences or considerations. Especially regarding long-term future.

JoJo, any pretty villages you can recommend, with decent transport links to London (fast trains)?

Servant, thank you for that. I do see some positives of being here.
I think the weather though is such a huge factor for me, and it depresses me. :(

I LOVE London. I find it magical, it has an amazing vibe, I love the architecture, the incredible history etc, just being there makes me happy.

Water.

Yes, I will have to bear in my the negatives you mention.

We wouldn't be central enough to London, I want a village in the home counties, with a community vibe, and easy access into London.

My husband has had a cushy several years in what I see as languishing in a job that's beneath him. When I worked (currently home educating the kids, but I'd look at doing something down south to get us more spending money), I did the hour+ commute and it's just second nature and part of the job. Get on, read a book, it's fine. For the standard of living I feel our children deserve. I'd also be open to swopping roles and I be the main earner, but for now, with mortgage purposes it's better for dh to stay in continuous paid work, we can always swop/amend once a mortgage is started.

Do you have the means to move to the SE? Also have you looked into homeschooling and links/communities there? Everything is significantly more ££ in the SE and post Covid so many of my London friends are jumping ship to the country. They have cash to swap a 3 bed Victorian terrace for a country pile, so it’s a win!

If you want commuter belt then you’ll pay for it- £600k for a 3 bed?

You do sound miserable....have you considered other areas like the outskirts of Bath? Or Bristol?

Blanc, brexit does indeed concern me. And the cost of university. These are factors that causing me pause.
SE/London was my home for many years. I absolutely loved being there, it felt like home. Up here doesn't.
I have to work out whether up here feels home to my kids (neither feel they want to stay, but I accept this might change. We also currently live in a rubbish little house because we moved in a rush. The kids would likely feel happier here if we moved to a better property.).

The big concerns and considerations for staying are Brexit/IndyRef2, and university for my kids.

For leaving: London and all it offers (see above list by JoJo), increasing house values to help kids in 20 years, better work opportunities/more options for them. The weather. More flights and options for holidays, access to Eurotunnel.

Atalune, without wishing to out us further, my husband's job has pockets of areas, so it's London or a few places south where they tend to congregate, so not really free to look at options in, sat, Bristol.
I know it costs £££ down there, but if we bite the bullet now, I feel we could build up a good nest egg so the kids have a headstart. Else, they are more stuck up here, unless they truly excel in their careers.

You do realise that many mortgage companies have changed their criteria so parents can no longer help their children with a lump sum to start their mortgage?

I think you have to move. But be prepared to enter into a very competitive and much less egalitarian society than the one you have (not) enjoyed so far.

Oh and I think homeschooling communities are much bigger down south, solely because of the population. It's not big where we are, I'd like more kids for my kids to hang with.

Atalune, no, what do you mean? That I can't gift my children a lump sum for their deposit?

You should move to Brighton. Not too far from London. Much better weather. Lots of people home-ed there. Lots of people who share your political outlook.