Children at private school, still wonder if it is the right thing though.

[whizzylala]

Hello,
I hope this is not an annoying thread for people.
After much deliberation we decided to go for prep for my DD who is now in Yr1 - she was way ahead at reception entry and the primary school teacher wanted her to miss out on reception and go straight to Yr 1 as she said she would be bored - she is a feb birthday and I did not feel this was a good solution, so opted to go private.
DS joined her at the school in the foundation class this september.
I love the school, they are both doing well and are very happy but I just get these niggles about whether it is worth all the money. We can afford the fees at the moment with a few dacrifices, but I do just think about all that money and what else we could do with it one day!
All our friends children are at primaries (not the one ours would go to) and there children sound equally happy. I know it is not all about academic achievement and part of what I love about their school is so many great facilities and opportunities. My DD is also beginning to level out with her peers in many areas of her learning now - good job she stayed in the right class.
Any thoughts, I just feel a bit confused right now! (Would be applying for reception for DS this week so I think that is what has got me thinking!)
Thanks for reading.
Whiz

I would keep them in if you can afford it, it is absolutely worth it in the long run I feel. If you were getting into debt I would say to find a good state school but as you say she is really happy there and the facilities are good. The contacts she will make there will be beneficial too.

We have exactly the same niggling questions wizzing around in our head too.

Me and DW both went to good but nothing special village primary schools but DSs go to a Prep school which has a lovely homely atmosphere and picturesque setting but is it really worth that much more than the best local primary in our area?

We feel the small classes are worth the money but really both DS1 and DS2 are not being stretched academically as the Prep they are it is just following the national curriculum at the same pace as a local primary school. To be fair the headmistress has begun to stream from Yr 4 so the brightests kids get more work to do in Maths and English.

The cost is not high at the moment and the senior school the Prep feeds into is much better than local secondaries but not fantastically high in the academic league tables. It has good facilities for sport etc and a nice atmosphere where kids are normal well behaved and not overly rich and privelleged. I guess we will carry on.

Some children have left the Prep school to go to local priary and some have joined from local primary. Many children at the nursery section of the school leave to go to local primary at 5 so it is a bit of a two way street.

Its a huge issue and I have to say I am not 100% convinced that our decision to educate privately is the right one. There is no perfect school. We have 2 ds - oldest has just started senior school, youngest just started reception. Ds1 did 2 years at our local primary that was lovely in many ways - but the class was huge (30) with a part time ta and I think that he still struggles with spelling because he started in that school - vertically integrated class, two lessons being delivered at the same time, hard to concentrate. There is no way that he would have passed the entrance exam to his senior school if he had stayed there. (If he was very academic,he might have done - but he isnt.) I am seeing a huge difference in ds2 - he is zooming on in his class in the private school - due in most part to there being only 11 children in the class with a teacher and full time ta. So, as always, depends on the school, depends on the child. I think in primary the main thing that money buys round here is smaller class sizes.

I think if you have niggling thoughts then you're obviously not 100% happy with the financial commitment and what you are getting for your money. My DD also a Feb '04 baby is in the Y1 class at the Prep school my ds also attends (y6) We are very happy with how she is being stretched academically. DD's school use the National Curriculum as a guideline only and go way beyond it, (school does not do Key stage SAT tests) At present her reading age has been assessed as being 2 years above her age and she is doing spellings such as triangle, rectangle which are Year 2 words. There are 16 pupils in the class and I am paying for her to receive more attention and help in the class, to be stretched. In a state school, (I know I work in one)the children in the class all have to achieve at the same level, meaning if your child is zooming ahead they are either held back or asked to help those who are struggling, they cannot move ahead.
Financially, you do need to be able to look to the future and know that you could pay the fees and enjoy some financial rewards for your self..... As they move on up the school, ski trips, residential foreign language trips etc etc come along and they are expensive!
best of luck with your hard decision, I know that I've made the right decision for my children, I love their school (wish I could have been a pupil there!!)and most of all they love their school

Thanks all.
CowsGoMoo I really appreciate your answer as you know what happens in a state school. I am happy with the financial commitment if I know it is worth it! The problem is I have no idea what would be happening at a state primary. Our school sounds similar to yours, following NC as a guide, no sats, she is in her own group for literacy and her teacher has been great at thinking up interesting things for her to do as she is "off" reading at the moment - "I can read, so why do I have to get books from school?" She has done her own projects and has found them very interesting. I just have no idea if this is something that would happen if she had gone to the village primary we chose which has same number in class, about 16. I was just a bit put off by the heads initial response of missing a year rather than giving her appropriate level work.
I love going to school and seeing all the happy kids busying about their day, I have no doubt that DD is thriving and being stretched as needed.
I suppose the answwer is I will never know unless I try but not sure I am prepared to take the risk!!

If your child is very bright (sounds like she is!) then I can understand why you chose a private school and of course there will be many benefits - v educated teachers, small class sizes, teachers who just teach and don't worry too much about silly league tables, supportive parents etc etc. If you can afford the fees, good luck to you! I would pay if I had the cash...

You can have v educated teachers and supportive parents at state schools, jaded

OP, the grass will always be greener. Only you can decide if you the financial sacrifice is worth it. Sorry to be so wishy washy but no school will give you 100 per cent what you want. Good luck

"The contacts she will make there will be beneficial too."

"In a state school, (I know I work in one)the children in the class all have to achieve at the same level, meaning if your child is zooming ahead they are either held back or asked to help those who are struggling, they cannot move ahead."

This may be true in the school you work in school - it most certainly isn't state school policy or even typical of the state schools I know. If it is true of your school you should be speaking to the Head and Governors about it - OFSTED would not be at all impressed!
My own ds, for example is at a state primary school, and does plenty of extension work in literacy and maths because he is ahead of most of his peers, particularly in literacy. His friend has the opportunity to do lots of extra art - he is "g and t' in that area.

PLEASE remember, when you talk about supportive parents, educated teachers and happy busy children that there are lots of them in the state sector too - contrary to the impression created by Mumsnet, 93% of the country's children go to state schools!

OP - I had hoped my dc would go private but we had to opt for state for financial reasons. For what it is worth, they are doing fine (reception), but I worry about class sizes and the sheer impossibility of teaching children with such a wide range of birth dates (the nearly fives and the just turned fours)
Also, I suspect it is difficult to see value for money at private when they are very young, but you will see it much more clearly when your children turn 8,9.
Many parents at the state school we use opt out of it at 7 because they see the education gap widening, but really struggle to get into private schools then because the main entry point is 5. HTH

Of course there are very good state schools with supportive parents etc but you have to be living next door to those! If you can't afford to do that then you don't necessarily get an outstanding school. Parents move to be in the catchment area for the best schools which doesn't sound much different from paying for private education! I just hate this 'one size fits all' approach in the state sector and the obsession with targets. It just seems to be about passing exams. I think a lot of good things come from the state sector but times have changed. Parents are seeing schools as free childcare and expect teachers to bring up their children as well as educating them!

I think that it depends on what your ideas on the next step after primary are.

We chose private and did not even consider the state option. DS is very bright, and he is in a pre-prep which has excellent results (despite not being selective) of getting boys into the very top prep schools (which link into their top 5 nationally senior schools). He is one of the tops in his class is likely to sit for those particular schools. Our option for state school was a mediocre one, which would not have prepared him for the move after 7+.

DH and I are international residents, and our hopes for the university education for our children are the same Ivy League ones we had. In order for DSs to have a good chance for this, an internationally recognisable education is required. Private school was the best option for us.

DH and I went to "Ivy league" (by which I guess you mean Oxbridge) and we were both educated in the state sector all the way through, so not sure about this as a ratonale.

I mean specifically Ivy League (ie, go back to the States).

Just seems incredible to me that universities would actually use as an admission criteria the school a child went to rather than the quality of the candidate. I thought the states was meritocratic guess I must be wrong.

"Value for money" is so difficult to judge though. I'm fairly sure that there is no way that my son's education is clearly worth the £10k more than it would cost to send him to a state school tbh. I suppose that I look at it on the basis that by paying I have greater choice as to which school that my dcs go to. Locally the schools are all pretty different in everything from ethnic and social mix to the style of teaching, and the facilities on offer. And of course overall size of school, class sizes, destination schools are very varied.

So whilst I can't say that my dcs education is "worth" £10k more, by paying I am getting greater choice as to which school he goes to, and in our circumstances I'm happy that I would prefer to do that. If I was making sacrifices to pay though, then I guess I might want something more tangible to be able to point at. I'm very happy that I have got schools with good teaching, decent facilities and an ethos which suits each of my children (my dcs are at different primary schools).

But I'm in Outer London, so whilst there is a scarcity of school places locally there is no scarcity of schools. It sounds as if you may have fewer local choices? In which case, you are less likely to find the "perfect" school for your dcs, and then you're having to consider whether the one that you are choosing is a much better fit that your state alternatives. Eg I think that I worked out that we had over 30 independent schools within a 5 mile radius (some of which I would be willing to pay to avoid to be honest), so I felt that I was bound to find something that I felt was a pretty good match. But if I had the choice of only 2 independent schools over 2 state schools say then it would have been less likely that I'd feel that an independent school was necessarily the best match.

Not sure if that all makes much sense. I suppose all that I can say is that paying doesn't automatically give you a better school, it just increases the number of available schools, and therefore the chance of getting a school that suits your dcs best.

Why on earth do people think that state education is "one size fits all"? I an always fascinated that people who 'do not even consider state education" still seem to be experts on the subject!

Kerala, competition to get into Ivy League schools is as bad as 10% acceptance. In order to judge students, there are national exams, which it is expected that one would have done very well in, then transcripts, recommendations, personal essays, and extracurricular activities. In order to accurately judge a foreign student's transcript, familiarity with the school helps greatly (thus coming from an internationally recognized school is essential). Yes it is a meritocracy, but how do you which applicant do you expect an admissions officer to feel more comfortable with: an A student from Westminster or an A student from middle of table comp?

Argh! pressed send prior to editing! Sorry for the jumble above!

If they're getting an A from the comp then surely that's more impressive than the A from the well-resourced, smaller class size public school?

I don't advocate discriminating against private school pupils at all but I certainly wouldn't assume that the comprehensive pupil with an A* wouldn't be as good.

Oh, I absolutely agree. Unfortunately, the Admission Office at Harvard wouldn't, unless that A* student at the comp was also an Olympic winning athlete.

Actually, even better would be an A* student at comp who was the International Twister champ.

huh?

My experience of Oxbridge admissions is the opposite.

It is understood that an A from a spoon feeding private school does not indicate the same calibre of candidate as an A from a comprehensive.

Of course. But imagine you are an Oxbridge Admission Officer and you have 2 candidates from 2 schools in the States with very similar Grade Point Averages. One student is in the top 10 of his class and came from a medium sized public school (what Americans call state schools) in lower average suburb of Detroit. Other candidate is also in top 10 coming from Phillips Exeter Academy (the equivalent of Eton - very famous boarding school in New England). Whose transcript will you better decipher?

Hi Whizz. Not sure I can add anything new to this thread but I can offer you my opinion based on my own experiences.

My DD1 attended a pre-prep from Rec to end of Yr1. Due to financial problems (DH redundancy) we had to move her to our local state primary school (ofsted 'outstanding').

From an academic perspective I can't really see much difference tbh. There is definitely less homework (do private schools give more to compensate for the long holidays??)but reading and spellings are the same. My daughter also appears to enjoy her lessons much more which is hugely important. Her teacher is excellent and there are no behavioural problems in the class.

BUT....there are currently 28 children per class (due to rise to 30 next year) and there are 3 classes per year. There are very few opportunities for extra curricular activities in KS1. There have been 3 offered this term with a max of 20 places - not great odds for all of KS1!!

For most of the 2 years my DD was at her pre-prep school we agonised about whether we had done the right thing. Every time we sent the chq or she came home not very happy we would question our motives and wonder whether she would be happier at her local school. Now she is (and she is happy) we worry about the opportunities she might be missing!!!My gut feeling on this is that if you can afford it and your DD is happy at her prep school then leave her there because chances are if you did move her you would then spend the next few years questioning that decision as well!! Good Luck!

Sofa, if I were an Oxbridge admissions officer (I'm not but my father used to be so I know the system very well) I'd go for the Detroit one.

It sounds like Oxbridge is more egalitarian than Ivy League