Children at private school, still wonder if it is the right thing though.

[whizzylala]

Hello,
I hope this is not an annoying thread for people.
After much deliberation we decided to go for prep for my DD who is now in Yr1 - she was way ahead at reception entry and the primary school teacher wanted her to miss out on reception and go straight to Yr 1 as she said she would be bored - she is a feb birthday and I did not feel this was a good solution, so opted to go private.
DS joined her at the school in the foundation class this september.
I love the school, they are both doing well and are very happy but I just get these niggles about whether it is worth all the money. We can afford the fees at the moment with a few dacrifices, but I do just think about all that money and what else we could do with it one day!
All our friends children are at primaries (not the one ours would go to) and there children sound equally happy. I know it is not all about academic achievement and part of what I love about their school is so many great facilities and opportunities. My DD is also beginning to level out with her peers in many areas of her learning now - good job she stayed in the right class.
Any thoughts, I just feel a bit confused right now! (Would be applying for reception for DS this week so I think that is what has got me thinking!)
Thanks for reading.
Whiz

I am constantly amazed that in our primary schools we expect one person to teach 30 children of all abilities, five or so specialist subjects. The fact that a proportion of children receive a less than optimum education should be no surprise!

Yes, the better schools have developed ways to support the system (TA's, streaming, some specialist language teaching ...). And with good home support many children do very well. But not all.

The primary schools near me are Ofsted rated good or above, yet there is a constant movement of children from state primary to private schools. The reasons vary from the dc not being stretched, through to the dc being ignored because they're quiet in class, to special educational needs not being adequately addressed.

I believe it to be a myth, dadatlarge, because I only hear this idea that there is no differentiated teaching in state primary schools either from parents whose children don't go to state primary schools or as seconds hand reporting - "the child of a friend of mine....."

I am involved with all our local schools in various capacities and they all, without exception, provide differentiated teaching. They are all OFSTED rated 'good" or below. A school which does not do this is a bad school, and the issue should be addressed. It is not true, as some people seem to think that this is acceptable or common in state primaries.

seeker, you seem to dismiss the large majority of parents here, like me, who experience the problem first hand. I disagree with you, these people aren't here to talk about children of friends, they complain because of concern for their own children's education.

As jackstarbright says, some move to private. Why? For many it's because they feel their children are being held back. But not all of us enjoy the luxury of that choice.

You seem to argue that if a school ticks a box i.e. provides differentiated teaching in any way, shape or form then they are "not holding back the brightest".

Dadatlarge, please check my posts. I DID say that there are problems with g ant t provision - which I know is your particular concern - and that is maybe a matter for other threads.

But most children are not g and t. And I really don't think that the large majority of parents on here think that their children are being held back. And there are lots of reasons why a child would be moved to a private school - ONE of them being the belief held by some that ANY private school is better than any state school.

And it is simply not true, as someone stated on this thread, that "In a state school, (I know I work in one)the children in the class all have to achieve at the same level, meaning if your child is zooming ahead they are either held back or asked to help those who are struggling, they cannot move ahead." It is just NOT TRUE!!!!!!!

Seeker. In my experience, moving schools is not a decision a parent takes lightly. I am talking about parents whose first choice for their dc was a state school. It is their real experiences that push them towards moving to private schools not some irrational whim as you seem to be suggesting.

"It is their real experiences that push them towards moving to private schools not some irrational whim as you seem to be suggesting."

I don;t think i suggested anything of the sort!

"ONE of them being the belief held by some that ANY private school is better than any state school."

To me this statement appeared to trivialise what for many is a traumatic and difficult decision.

You noticed, I presume, my emphasis that this was ONE of the beliefs held by SOME people?

And before you ask, I could give you the names and addresses of three people in real life who do believe this and have based their actions on this belief.

O.k a few people might make a commitment to state education for their dc's. Let them settle into a school, make friends and be happy and then suddenly change their mind for no good reason except a sudden belief that any private school is better than any state school. There are all sorts in this world to be sure. But most people having made a commitment to a school will usually have a good reason for uprooting their dc's (even if it's not obvious to others).

What the people I know did is start with state education, discover that they weren't completely happy with some elements of the particular school and decide that it wasn't the particular school they had an issue with, it was state education in general, and decided that the answer to the problem was to move to private. In one case it was the answer - because the school they moved to happened to be right for their dc. In the other two it wasn't.

seeker, your emphasis on SOME and ONE as a counter against accusations of generalisation leaves me a bit bemused particularly as you're the one who's taken the example of a school/s in your local area and projected that on the whole state education system. And you've done this to the extent that anyone who has a different experience - i.e. differentiation on paper, not sufficiently in practise - exists only as part of a myth.

If your children are happy at their school, leave them there.

Sorry, dadatlarge - don't understand your last post at all. What I am saying is that schools which do not provide differentiated work are breaking their statutory duty. A bad school is a bad school whatever sector it's in. Finding an example of a bad state school and saying "This is what state schools are like" is as bad as finding a bad independent school and saying "This is what independent schools are like."

I wouldn't do the latter. Many people seem happy to do the former.

DadAtLarge Mon 16-Nov-09 09:49:55
"In a state school, (I know I work in one)the children in the class all have to achieve at the same level, meaning if your child is zooming ahead they are either held back or asked to help those who are struggling, they cannot move ahead."

This is true in large part for the majority of state schools.

Total bunkum and nonsense. I have at present a class with students working from a level 4 to a level 7 . Following the logic above I would teach at a level 5 and stop the more able pupils progressing. I do the exact opposite an have at least 3 levels of work going on in the class and have individual work and homework tasks for the one student working at a level 7.

Having said that I am very unhappy with my dd's primary school which is not stretching her. I see that as the failing of one teacher rather than the whole state sector.

failing of one teacher

One teacher here, one teacher there soon adds up to 15,000 ;)

Well not in the case of my dd, I have been very happy with all of her previous teachers.

It really is impossible to have any sort of discussion with you dadatlarge, isn't it? Well at least you've got the Daily Mail on your side!

Not all the teachers at Private Schools are very good. Infact, I think you probably have to be more skilled to teach in a state school.

So, before moving into the private sector, you need to check that you are not paying for poor teaching.

I think that is unfair Builde, it is not a case of needing more or less skills but perhaps needing different skills.

"needing different skills."

What sort of different skills do teachers need in private schools?

seeker, the 15000 incompetent teachers quote was widely reported in every, single newspaper. It's not a Daily Mail opinion, that was just the first link I found.

It's not about sides. It's about the fact that not all teachers and schools are the bright, shining example that yours is.

Even posters like Morosky, happy with the majority of teachers, accepts that pupils who are zooming ahead are held back in most state schools. It may be intentional and planned. Or it may just be that the teacher feels they are okay so she should concentrate on the ones who are struggling. Either way the result for the brighter ones is the same.

Teacher skills in state vs private schools: For one, they don't need to double as social workers in private schools.

I neve said that pupils held back in schools are held back in most state schools at all, I said my one child with one teacher in one school is being held back.

I teach in a state school and don't see myself as a social worker, I have to now and again deal with a "social issue" but I would imagine that even children educated privately will need help with a social problem, although it is very unlikely to be linked with poverty.

Seeker, I used to teach in a school that would be identified as a sink school, much of my time was spent planning all singing and all dancing lessons so that I could keep the kids on board. The ability spectrum was quite narrow and low so I spent a lot of time taking difficult concepts and making them as simple as possible. I also had to deal with a lot of SEN issues, in some classes every child was on the SEN register. The pupils could be violent and even intimidating so again that calls for other skills. A shockingly high percentage were on the Child Protection Register so although I was not a social worker I had to deal with social workers and "social" issues.

I now teach in a very different school, my classroom management skills are not tested to the same degree. I teach the grammar stream in every year and teach A Level so more demands are made on my subject knowledge. The school has a very different culture and I plan in a different way.

I have friends who teach in grammar schools or the independent sector and they are far more involved in extra curricular activities,they may be expected to be more than just a subject teacher. Even less demands are made of their classroom management skills, but perhaps more demands are made on their subject knowledge. Some of my friends who work in grammars and independents say the teaching is more bookwork and some would say more traditional - but as I have only ever taught in the state sector I could not say that for certain.

I'd like to go back, if you all wouldn't mind, to the statement about primary school value. The state school advocates, which I believe seeker is, are going to have a hard time convincing me that a class of 30 is preferred to a class of 11.

My dc is not in primary yet, but I am already considering independent options over state options based on class size alone.