Children at private school, still wonder if it is the right thing though.

[whizzylala]

Hello,
I hope this is not an annoying thread for people.
After much deliberation we decided to go for prep for my DD who is now in Yr1 - she was way ahead at reception entry and the primary school teacher wanted her to miss out on reception and go straight to Yr 1 as she said she would be bored - she is a feb birthday and I did not feel this was a good solution, so opted to go private.
DS joined her at the school in the foundation class this september.
I love the school, they are both doing well and are very happy but I just get these niggles about whether it is worth all the money. We can afford the fees at the moment with a few dacrifices, but I do just think about all that money and what else we could do with it one day!
All our friends children are at primaries (not the one ours would go to) and there children sound equally happy. I know it is not all about academic achievement and part of what I love about their school is so many great facilities and opportunities. My DD is also beginning to level out with her peers in many areas of her learning now - good job she stayed in the right class.
Any thoughts, I just feel a bit confused right now! (Would be applying for reception for DS this week so I think that is what has got me thinking!)
Thanks for reading.
Whiz

Of course a class of 11 is preferable to a class of 30. I do try my upmost though to provide my classes with the same level of "sevice" they would get in a class of 11. That does however usually require me to work at least a 60 hour week, which in itself is not ideal, I could at the commit a crime if in return I could get my eight hours sleep after a normal 9 - 5 working day.

Morosky, bless you for your efforts.

How successful do you believe you are in providing the same level of service to 30 as you could to 11?

I think your last sentence is discombobulated, it must be all those late hours .

I simply can't get past the simple arithmetic of 30 vs 11.

Please do not patronise me.

Morosky,

So very sorry, patronising was in no way my intent. I have taught both state and independent, and have dealt with 30+ students myself. I am truly appreciating the effort you make toward your 30 in order to provide them individual service.

I really do want to know how successful you believe you are, and what you intended to say in your last sentence.

Seriously.

I neve said that pupils held back in schools are held back in most state schools at all

I refer you to your comment, "This is true in large part for the majority of state schools"

don't see myself as a social worker.. in some classes every child was on the SEN register... A shockingly high percentage were on the Child Protection Register

Hmm.

zazizoma, despite my comments, I would urge you to consider state schools, particularly if you're in the catchment of a good one. When DS was in Reception, it was a class of 25 if I remember right and they had two TAs.

DadAtLarge, thanks, I will look into the class sizes of local primaries again when the timing is more relevant, but at the beginning of this year all the nurseries were at 30 per class. I question whether there is any way to spin that dynamic to make it preferable to a smaller class size if one has the luxury of the choice, which I certainly do recognize as a luxury.

"bless you for your efforts"

How on earth is that not patronising?

I think I am very successful to be honest, my results, feedback from colleagues, parents and students support that view. Today for example my year 11s were all given exam scripts back within 2 days of me recieving them with very very detailed feedback on what they did well and what they needed to do to improve. If I taught in an independent school I would have to have returned say 45 scripts for the 3 classes I teach. It was in fact 90 but I will not allow the fact that I teach "large" groups to limit their education. So I have done little else but mark and sleep for those 2 days.

I passionately believe that all children deserve the best education possible, regardless of the size of their parent's bank account, therefore I teach in the state sector and give it my all.

My point was that has personal costs for myself. Tonight for example I have had to practically ignore my dp on his birthday as I have work to do. I also get far more tired than I would like, which means I am not always as good a teacher as I would hope to be. My second point was that I am currently totally exhausted, and would right now do almost anything to have a normal 9-5 working day and 8 hours sleep. I would like to wake up at half six and breeze into work, rather than waking at half five in a panic that I have things to do. I suspect to be honest that I am coming down with something as I am being very negative and it will all feel better after the weekend.

But all of us, whatever sector, have things we would like to work on.

Maybe I am overtired, touchy and irrational but I still think you were being deliberately patronising and the wink did not mitigate that.

I am now going to sit with my dp for half an hour before going back to my "efforts"

I never said that Dadatlarge I was quoting someone else and when I went back into my post to put in the quotation marks, I put them in the wrong place.

If you read my post it is followed by the worlds total bunkum and nonsense.

Now I really am going as dp is back from walking the dog.

don't see myself as a social worker.. in some classes every child was on the SEN register... A shockingly high percentage were on the Child Protection Register

Hmm. >>

There is no need to hmm, all children need teaching whether they be from a stable background or on the child protection register, if they are on the SEN register or present no obvious extra demands. I was and still am there to teach.

Morosky, I have apologised and stated that patronising was not my intent. Believe what you would like. I thinks blessings are good things.

Thanks for your response.

You know,(cat among the pigeaons time) I'm not sure that small class sizes are always a good thing. My dd has a friend who was in a class of 11 from Reception up. She was one of 5 girls - the friendship pool was impossibly small. She is now in a class of 27 and a year gropy of 150something at Secondary school and, once she got over the shock, is revelling in the choice of people!.

And a class of 30 with a teacher and a LSA can provide a pretty good service!

On and dadatlarge - our school is far from a shining example - bog standard primary, very mixed intake and scraped an OFSTED good lasst year because the Inspector wanted to get home early!

Seeker, I understand your point, and could actually see benefits of larger class sizes for older kids. I'm questioning the value of such for primary years.

I disagree zazimoma, ds is in a year of 60 kids (2 classes) in a deprived inner city school and he's having a fantastic time. Huge pool of kids to make friends with, lots of resources and input from all over the place. I was in class the other day and there were five adults to 28 kids, working in small groups doing guided reading. DS gets this every day, plus similar in maths and phonics. Small classes are often good, but not always.

Sounds good smee, and a situation I would consider for my child if that were available locally. A 5 to 28 ratio sounds luxurious. Are those 5 full time, or is it usually lower?

I'm with seeker, dd1 is in a class of 60 in reception, plus a lot of mixing with the 20 or so kids in the nursery. Having such a large pool of friends work brilliantly, I didn't anticipate that at all. Various volunteers plus paid staff are always in and out, they never seem to be in larger groups than 10 for any activity and tons of specialised help for children with, for example, poor motor skills. Large classes aren't necessarily a bad thing.

No zazizoma it's not all the time - would be astounding if it was. Full time, each class has a teacher, plus a TA, though there's quite often 2 TA's in the classroom, so 3 adults to 30 kids. Throughout the day there's all manner of input from other people - so there's a music teacher, a dance teacher, etc. With the literacy the five were made up from class teacher, two TA's the deputy head and a parent helper. and that happens every day.

Okay, I'll look into the staffing situation when DC is ready to start primary. Thanks for the input, it doesn't seem that large classes are such a big deal if there are enough staff to divide into smaller groups. I don't think this is always the case though.

Look at class sizes and staff to student ratio throughout the primary school, not just in the very first years.

I agree smokeandmirrors, mostly in state it's 30 kids, one teacher and one TA. But to me that's okay if the school's good, as I don't think ratios are the most important thing. There are all sorts of reasons that a school's good, and there's good and bad in both state and private sectors. We'd probably all agree on that.

What Builde said.

I teach KS2, have 19 children and a full time TA, plus a science and music specialist.

I also work in a state primary school!

All schools are different, there is no such thing as a standard school, either private or state.

Have just started reading this thread. We currently live in an area which is famous for falling between 2 v popular state schools (didn't know this when we bought the house) so children get 'shipped' miles away to unfilled schools. So if we stay here the children will go privately.
We've been looking at moving more rurally, mainly for quality of life reasons, but there will be only the village primary (17/class) and no private option at all..
Any advice? Should we be considering moving?

What's wrong with the village primary? Some people are paying a fortune to have 17 in a class!

Need to look at it primarymum, hopefully nothing! I just worry that our options are all being removed, that it will be the local primary or nothing....
I really value the thought of a more mixed group of children though

Re: Class sizes. Just been reading a very interesting and excellent book - 'What's The Point Of School' by Bill Claxton. He also says that mixed ability v setting is the other much debated topic.

In it he says:

'Class sizes only begins to make a significant difference when you get down to around 15 per class, which is impossibly expensive for all but the best-endowed independent schools. And the arguments about setting, banding & streaming, as opposed to mixed ability teaching, should have been put to bed long ago, when it was discovered that the variable that made the most difference was not what method of grouping you chose, but whether the teachers who had to implement the system believed in it or not. Streaming gets the best results with teachers who believe in streaming; and mixed ability likewise.'

My children have around 25 in the class and I would personally choose an excellent teacher in every respect over a smaller class size.