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School and holidays during term time

241 replies

Undercarrigetrouble · 22/05/2009 23:38

dd's school have refused us permission.
We are unable to go any other time as it is unaffordable to us also due to work commitments it is difficult to take leave during the school holidays.
dd has a great attendance record so i think they are being slightly unreasonable.
We are taking her regardless
So what will they do?

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flashharriet · 27/05/2009 18:36

Fwiw clumsymum, I agree with you to a certain extent. But I'm afraid that I don't agree that 2 weeks in Disneyland is educational or could afford the kind of family togetherness that couldn't be had in England in August.

It seems a little like MPs' expenses - just because it's not wrong doesn't make it right...

juuule · 27/05/2009 18:38

She sounds a very sensible head-teacher Clumsymum.

juuule · 27/05/2009 18:41

While it might not suit your family it's not your call to judge what suits another family, though, Flashharriet.
And it's nothing like the MP's expenses - it's a family deciding what they will spend their own money on.

hellywobs · 27/05/2009 18:51

Can the OP really not take any holiday in any of the 13 weeks' school holiday that state schools get in the year?

School can't do much unless they decide to treat you as a truant and send the EWO around - unlikely I think.

flashharriet · 27/05/2009 18:52

I'm interested where those in favour of term-time holidays would draw the line, if anywhere:

is 3 weeks OK? Or 4, 5 or 6?

is it OK for the teacher? Or the TAs?

what about taking every Friday off if nothing much happens on a Friday?

Genuine questions, I really am interested.

juuule · 27/05/2009 18:59

Flashharriet Your holiday recommendations for the 1/8 - Cowes week are £300 per person
The rest of summer is £589 for one and £499 in the other. And I don't think that includes the cost of getting there (incl. ferry)

Having said that, thanks for posting that website link, I'll have a closer look at it.

flashharriet · 27/05/2009 19:11

Oh sorry, that's a bit rubbish of the website - I did search on £300 or less per week. Thought it looked nice!

Gorionine · 27/05/2009 19:19

Flashharriet, for some of us who have to travel abroad to see our family, holiday time prices are often not affordable at all. I have not seen my mum for the last 2 years so I feel it is needed for myself and for my DCs to this year take a few days during term time. I have discussed it with the HT and fortunately she does understand the situation and has agreed to it. If she had not it would mean waiting maybe another year to see my family and I do not think I can do that.

flashharriet · 27/05/2009 19:28

Gorionine, in your situation I would do the same and I would think that any sensible HT would take the same view. I also think that they would take the same view over those families who couldn't afford to holiday in school holidays at all. Ditto families whose work situations prevent them from taking any of the 13 weeks school holidays off (can't be very many of them but I'm sure they exist).

But for those who just fancy going somewhere better - no, it can't be justified whichever way you skin it, IMO.

juuule · 27/05/2009 19:29

What's wrong with wanting to go somewhere better?

flashharriet · 27/05/2009 19:31

Nothing - but do it in the school holidays!

ChasingSquirrels · 27/05/2009 19:31

I don't try to justify it, or not. I just do it.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 27/05/2009 19:52

Flashharriet, I think I agree with you about just fancying going somewhere better. We have pretty much decided that if we have the same income we have at the moment next year, we will go in school holiday time but have to save a little bit harder and/or go somewhere slightly cheaper. It will also mean we won't be able to go as a large family group any more as the dates won't suit other members of the extended family. However, on the other hand, I would hope that if our income is reduced next year, as is quite likely depending if DH's income drops, I would feel no qualms about going somewhere cheap and cheerful in term-time if it meant we could have a family holiday.

I had a look at your website though, and noticed that it only brought up 3 properties in the whole of England for that price. I know there will have probably been more available and already booked a long time ago, but it goes to show that there would be a large number of people chasing a relatively small number of decent properties if we all had to take our hols the same weeks.

Clary · 28/05/2009 00:39

curlyhair, the thing is, it's up to hol companies what they charge.

If prices are low during term time, well that will encourage those who can go then to go. As quattro says, that's lots of ple, y'know.

Used to be us and we always went either June or Sept tbh. Not just cause it was cheaper.

My point about the stuff you miss at school was just yours I feel - ie there is interesting exciting enriching activity going on all the time and I don't want any of my DC to miss it.

Our school is not that academic btw - middle-class so kids do well but emphasis much more on caring ethos and enjoyment and teamwork.

wrt working parents - we manage to take all our holidays in school hols and I am not aware it's a problem. Mind you it is a big workplace and lots of the staff are young = no children.

What always amazes me with working parents is that they can afford this in holiday terms. We streeeetch our meagre 10 wks (between us) of hols to cover 13 weeks of no school. It doesn't quite fit. To take any of that in school time would be total madness.

critterjitter wrt "educational" holidays, for sure a holiday can teach a child something, tho I would question the educational value of a week by the pool in English-speaking Spain (or for that matter our own fortnight on the beach in Wales - mayeb the kids learn to swim and bodyboard ).

But more educational than school? when the holiday time is available for this altrenative education? If people really think that, why send the kids to school at all? You don't have to as HE-ers are so fond of reminding us...

juuule · 28/05/2009 08:18

"why send the kids to school at all?"

What a strange thing to say. Does missing up to 10days in term-time invalidate the other 37 weeks in school?

seeker · 28/05/2009 08:25

So what sort of message does that send to your child about the importance of school? Or the authority of the head teacher? "OK, there are rules, but they don't apply to you"

juuule · 28/05/2009 08:32

Isn't that the message that a headteacher would be giving by authorising term-time holidays?

dancingbear · 28/05/2009 08:34

I don't think taking my kids out of school for two weeks during term time sends any strong message to them - my two are 5 years old, maybe they're a bit green around the ears but they don't spend their days attempting to subvert the rules at school.

I really think the attitude you have as a parent towards the school for the other 35 weeks of the school year plays a stronger influence than for 2 weeks.

juuule · 28/05/2009 08:35

"I really think the attitude you have as a parent towards the school for the other 35 weeks of the school year plays a stronger influence than for 2 weeks. "

So do I.

seeker · 28/05/2009 08:37

It's not the taking of holidays in term time that sends a unacceptable message - although it general I think it's a bad idea - it's taking the holiday when permission has been refused.

juuule · 28/05/2009 08:45

It wouldn't be necessary to tell the child that permission had been refused. With other children being absent with permission, then, unless told otherwise, the child wouldn't know that permission had been refused in their case. And if permission is at the whim of the head how can it be trusted in every case anyway?

I would hope that if permission was denied then a discussion could take place about why and an understanding reached by both sides.

poopscoop · 28/05/2009 08:54

Until every state school in the country follows the same guidelines it is all a bunch of arse.

People will continue to take their children out during term time, particularly if joe bloggs down the road at a similar school within the same area is given permission.

But even if they did have a national agreement, I would still take mine out.

lisad123 · 28/05/2009 09:07

well my dd1's school never authortheries any holiday in term time and you have to fill in a request form, then have a meeting with the head, where she tells you how bad a parent you are for ruining your childs education. Last year we wanted sometime out as I had spent 3 weeks in hospital very sick, dd1 had to start school and dd2 had come along. I had also been in a wheelchair for 6 month and poor dd1 found it all really hard. We wanted some time together, answer no!
This year macmillian have given us some funds to get away and would not have covered a school holiday, holiday. Request in, reason: DH has cancer and its felt a holiday would be good for all of us, and this is the one time it fits with appointments. Answer NO! Its a real PITA but shes very ahead on her education, isnt doing sats or anything, and we do loads of trips out that cant be learnt in the classroom. So we are going anyway. Oh and Im not allowed AL during school holidays

Sorry very long but our school is very nanny state

thegirlwiththecurl · 28/05/2009 09:10

ok - I'm going to wade in here. Haven't read the whole thread. I, personally, wouldn't take my children out of school for a holiday. I just think it sends all the wrong messages to them about how we value saving money over education etc. Plenty of children in this world do not have the access we do to education and we should value it.

However...this means that we don't have many holidays. The last one, 18mths ago was paid for by my lovely PIL. None of my children have been on a plane (ds1 now 13) and I would like to take them on a lovely holiday at some point. The fact is, we can't afford it so we don't go. We have lots of family time during the hols and make do. I just believe that we should value the education our children receive and show them that we do that. I also won't get into debt over holidays etc - if we can't afford it, we don't do it. Also, I am strict about them not skivving off pretending they are ill, but how would it look if I took them off for a few days for a holiday?

I realise I am totally in the minority here, but there you go

thegirlwiththecurl · 28/05/2009 09:13

would also like to add that I can totally see that there may be circumstances where a holiday during school time is justified - Lisad123 I can totally see why you would be peed of with this an yours is an exceptional case. A blanket rule that has no leeway for extreme situations isnot helpful

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