Active discussions

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

School and holidays during term time

241 replies

Undercarrigetrouble · 22/05/2009 23:38

dd's school have refused us permission.
We are unable to go any other time as it is unaffordable to us also due to work commitments it is difficult to take leave during the school holidays.
dd has a great attendance record so i think they are being slightly unreasonable.
We are taking her regardless
So what will they do?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
lljkk · 23/05/2009 17:45

Is that per child Saggar?
Does the penalty notice come in the post or is it formally served to you in person or read to you at a police station or what?
Does the FPN get issued as soon as child is missed from school or some time months later?

Also, does it matter how long for -- do you get fined more for 20 days unauthorized (in one go) than 5 or 10 days (still as one holiday) unauthorized?

holdingittogether · 23/05/2009 17:49

I have taken my dcs out of school for hols once before and will again this year. We have family who live abroad and I feel it is very important for them to visit their grandparents. Last year we went in summer hols, it was pricey but we lived with it. this year we really can't afford to pay the same price so coming back 7th september when the price of flights drops significantly. With td days they will only miss the first 4 school days of term. It is not ideal and I do feel a bit guilty about it but it is only 4 days and I think seeing their grandparents is very very important.

I don't expect school will do anything apart from mark it down as unauthorised. I know it is not the same but when I was pg with ds3 I requested ds1 to have a day off to come to a scan with me. I didn't get a reply from the head so took him anyway. Nothing was said. I don't think the head really had a problem with it but she couldn't be seen to authorise such days off.

I would appeal to the head one more time before going against them.

karise · 23/05/2009 17:59

Surely the head could hold a reasonable conversation with you about it? I would explain my reasons in detail &see what he/she says!

janeite · 23/05/2009 18:01

I am very much of the totally disapprove of holidays in term-time camp, so agree with Quattro.

neversaydie · 23/05/2009 18:33

In theory I am very much with those who say that children should be at school during term-time.

In practice, our school have sprung an extra INSET day and a day off because the school is a polling station just in this term. And agree that they seem to do very little other than muck about in the last week if the summer term anyway. So I guess I am softening..

I would try not to miss the first week of term though - new year and new teacher and so forth, and the child could feel a bit left out?

holdingittogether · 23/05/2009 18:45

That was exactly my worries when we thought about them missing those first few days of term. It wasn't a snap decision and we did consider it very carefully. My dcs go to a small primary where there are only 7 classes. Both of my school age kids know already which teacher they will have next year and will be with exactly the same children as there is only one class per year group. Routines are pretty consistent throughout the school so no major changes. I agree it is not ideal but we feel it will be fine, it's only 4 days wed, thurs, fri and then monday, back to school tuesday. Head has approved it.

holdingittogether · 23/05/2009 18:45

That was exactly my worries when we thought about them missing those first few days of term. It wasn't a snap decision and we did consider it very carefully. My dcs go to a small primary where there are only 7 classes. Both of my school age kids know already which teacher they will have next year and will be with exactly the same children as there is only one class per year group. Routines are pretty consistent throughout the school so no major changes. I agree it is not ideal but we feel it will be fine, it's only 4 days wed, thurs, fri and then monday, back to school tuesday. Head has approved it.

MamaMuesli · 23/05/2009 18:47

at our school it's a letter first time, they say it's a fine second time but I don't know enough to know if they have imposed it on anyone yet.

katiestar · 23/05/2009 19:18

If they fine you ,then don't pay for any school trips or swimming or anything like that
It is ridiculous to say primary children missing a few days of school are going to be permanantly educationally disadvantaged.Primary school go over the same old things time and time and time again

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 23/05/2009 19:37

lljkk - I'm not totally sure because I hand over my really bad cases and the EWO deals with the fines. It's probably per child because I suppose each child is a different 'offence'.

The notice goes in the post I think - I expect it has to be signed for and as far as I know, in my LA anyway you get a 'notice to improve' first. Although you would have had repeated letters and a visit from Education Welfare before that point anyway. Our LA can fine for 20 sessions which is actually 10 days as a session is a half day. As I said though they wouldn't do it for a one off 10 day holiday although you may get a notice to improve. I think (don't quote me though) that one more day after that can trigger the fine. It's a flat fixed penalty - no sliding scale at that point.

Most LA's have their own guidelines published on their website but the law surrounding it is the Education act 1996.

RustyBear · 23/05/2009 19:45

holdinittogether - sorry, but all the teachers at the school I work at say that the first few days of the school year is the worst possible time to miss - so much gets done in those few days & your child will continually be finding out that they don't know details about classroom routines etc.

HappyMummyOfOne · 23/05/2009 21:18

Katiestar, its the LEA not the school that issue fines.

Nice to know that you think enough of your childs school to advocate breaking rules and then throwing your dummy out of the pram if you get fined by refusing to pay for trips etc. That then means other parents either subsidise or the trips get cancelled.

katiestar · 23/05/2009 21:35

Yes I think its a stupid and unreasonable rule.A £50 fine is not going to deter anyone when you compare it to the diffrence between term time and school holiday prices , so is just another way of taxing Jo Public.
Rather than spitting the dummy I would view it as more a case of recouping my £50.Actually would also consider sending Kids in with no packed lunches a couple of days too so they had to give them school dinners.

katiestar · 23/05/2009 21:36

let me add a to that school dinner thing as that was actually tongue in cheek!

mrz · 23/05/2009 21:40

katiestar the school isn't obliged to give your child a school meal if you don't send in a packed lunch (only to contact you )and if they do you will be expected to pay so that would be a pointless gesture.
Happymummyofone is right about other parents and children being the ones to suffer if you don't pay for school visits

katiestar · 23/05/2009 21:50

Other parents won't suffer because they will have set the price before they know I'm not going to pay .If they cancel the trip they'll lose their deposit.
(BTW this is all hypothetical as I don't have any unauthorised absence and haven't been fined !)

katiestar · 23/05/2009 21:57

mrz - it causes reception children real problems missing school for a week ?
What will they miss .'one more than' , 'one less than ' colouring in and glitter or maybe playing in the sand .FGS some schools have intakes mid year anyway, those kids are missing a term or more .I somehow think they'll hav ecaught up before they sit their A levels

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 23/05/2009 22:05

You sound so supportive of your child's school katiestar.

katiestar · 23/05/2009 22:16

I am.I transport kids to school trips/sporting events , member of PTA ,used to be a governor , help at least 2 mornings a week in reception /Yr 1 class and they often ring me up at last minute when they are short of TAs.
All this makes me a bit miffed when I receive a letter from the head/ chairman of the governors to say that 'the governors are concerned at the number of children taking their children out of school for holidays and in future they will be unauthorsied '.Given that the parent governors are probably the worst offenders and have nearly all taken their children out earlier in the year for skiing holidays,I found this letter to be more than a little inflamatory.Especially as most parents bend over backwards to help the school.

Clary · 23/05/2009 23:39

katiestar if that's what you think of what they do in school why send them at all?

Really I do wonder this about people who justify holidays in term time by saying "Well, they don't learn anything in a week anyway." Really? Really?

Luckily for us all (except perhaps their children) they are quite wrong.

DadAtLarge · 23/05/2009 23:43

I'll take the minority view and agree with Quattrocento that taking children out of school is not setting a good example.

In addition to the points raised I'll also offer that if the teacher has to spend any extra time with your child to catch them up then it's not fair on the other children.

OTOH, I object to authorities telling me what I can and can't do with my kids. I'm tempted to take my children out for two weeks just to prove a point ;)

If the school doesn't like it I'll give them 24 hour notice under section 7 of the 1996 Education Act that I'm taking the children out of full time education (as the HEs do). Perfectly legal. As long as the school still has spaces after those two weeks I suspect they'll have to readmit when I change my mind.

DadAtLarge · 23/05/2009 23:46

BTW, the icing on the cake is that if you pull them out under Section 7 your child gets marked down as "authorised absence" for those two weeks.

hatesponge · 24/05/2009 00:53

My understanding is that you are not normally prosecuted for a one-off absence.

My DCs have an excellent attendance record, their school policy is that there is no authorised absence. They will be missing 2 days school as we are going away for a week from Tuesday-Tuesday.

I am not expecting the school/LEA to take any action - especially as nothing was done about the girl in DS1s year who was off for 2 weeks in December as she went to Australia, nor DS2's friend who came back to school 3 weeks after the end of the Easter hols as he had been abroad visiting relatives......in comparison 2 days off seems to me very minor, and I'm not intending to lose any sleep over it.

Quattrocento · 24/05/2009 08:28

Isn't that a dangerous strategy DAL? Fine if your school doesn't have a waiting list but if it does ...?

BonsoirAnna · 24/05/2009 08:36

I take DD out of school for the odd day here and there if we are going away for a long weekend, or if something more interesting than school crops up - but she is only 4.6, still at (optional) pre-school and all the other parents do it and the teachers and school don't care or mind, and think that it is normal.

I will definitely stop doing it once she reaches school proper. I don't want her to have gaps in her knowledge.