School and holidays during term time

[Undercarrigetrouble]

dd's school have refused us permission.
We are unable to go any other time as it is unaffordable to us also due to work commitments it is difficult to take leave during the school holidays.
dd has a great attendance record so i think they are being slightly unreasonable.
We are taking her regardless
So what will they do?

Maybe what should happen is school holidays should be different for different countes. Some obviously over lapping or the same then there wouldn't be so many wanting to go on holiday at the same time.

I haven't read all the thread (sorry) but as a teacher and single parent, I can't take my children out of school or afford to go away in the holidays.
My school refuses all holiday requests regardless of how good the child's attendance is and my children's school used to allow some but now refuse all so it might be that they are not being mean but simply that they don't allow any.

CHA, in your vision of what would befall holiday companies if people were to stop taking their children out of school during term-time, you are forgetting that:

(1) This only affects parents of children in the 5-16/18 age-range. The rest of the world CAN and often DO take holidays during term-time.

(2) Ditto workplaces. I work and DH works. We arrange holidays amicably with our colleagues to ensure there is enough cover in school holidays. The summer months do tend to be quieter at work in any event.

I'd be interested to see a poll of parents to understand just how many parents actually do take their children out of school during term-time. It must be a small minority (judging by unauthorised absence figures). Therefore I can't imagine that your apocalyptic scenario could ever happen.

that would be interesting Quatro.
DS was over 95% last year, when I took him out for 6 days. What is the average?

some people here have a very low opinion of what constitutes a 'holiday' most are thinking of two weeks on the costa del anglais with kids clubs and a pool...

i personally WOULD take my kids out of school (if they were old enough) to see the pyramids in egypt or visit africa on safari or india to see the temples or venice before it sinks or the alhambra or any number of other experiences if the local weather required the trip to be out of school holidays... some countries just can't be visited in july and some travel experiences are worth a month of school.

have been lurking on this thread from the start and totally agree with you herbietea.

Agree with fluffles - have taken my kids out for a trip to Australia - two weeks tagged onto Easter holidays - they experiened tropical and cool temperate rainforest, snorkelling in a coral reef, camping in a drought, Zoos, museums, beaches (at the end of a long day), amazing coastlines,seeing lots of wild annimals in their natural habitat, family bonds with thier antipodean cousins - among other things...I wasn't attempting to replicate school education, it was about broadening their outlook, they continued to read at length through the duration of our holiday - about all sorts of subjects.

It was in no way a lie on a beach all day holiday - I'd have been driven insane .
Our decision was based on weather, rather than price.

I don't really think a two week holiday during term time, from time to time, in isolation, leads to a bad work ethic...but would be interested in seeing some reseach to back up that claim.

My childhood memories almost entirely consist of holdays away - simple camping holidays - they feel like a very important time now - so I can completely understand why people choose to take their kids out of school for holidays during term time if that's all they can afford.

Though, I have never done it, I do see some circumstances where it would be fine.
For example a friend managed to get an eight week sabatical from work. So they topped and tailed the Xmas hols and went travelling. It was a once in a life time opportunity for their famly.
The school agreed and the kids are back and have caught up.

Quattro: at my "apocalyptic scenario"!
Obviously it was just my brain meandering through what MIGHT happen.

Regarding your point (2) about your workplaces, you are lucky if your workplace can manage to accommodate leave requests that fit round school holidays. My sister works in a hospital in a department where most of her colleagues have children of school age. She has to book half term holidays off a year in advance. It is not "quiet" in her department at any time of year.

Again, just because it's doable from YOUR point of view, doesn't mean it is for a lot of other people.

Herbietea, I quite agree with you about taking individual cases on its own merit.

And further to the point about different workplaces having different requirements, I would hate to see a situation where organisations were reluctant to employ young women because "they'd probably just go off and have babies and cause all sorts of problems with leave requests during school holidays."

I agee with Herbietea,each case is different and needs to be looked at properly.

Our school policy is thaty you can ask for up to 10 days in each school year (they do not get accepted automatically though) any more than that or if you go without autorisation will be registerd as "unautorised absence" and looked at by the wellfare officers.

We have on one occasion and will again this year ask for a few days off just before the end of the school year. Neither DH nor me have got any family in England and our holidays usually mean a tour of the family (in two different countries on two continents) and involve timing that does not only suit us but them as well. It is very hard to organise and I am very gratefull for the school to give us that opportunity.

Now I have got a friend who makes a point every year to take those 10 days off "because she can" . That I am not sure I do agree with but in a sense she is not doing anything wrong by asking.

Hang on, have I got this right?

Some head teachers give permission - this counts as authorised absence

Some head teachers do not give permission - this counts as unauthorised absence

Where's the consistency in that?

Yes that is correct quattro. One of my dc heads gives permission (secondary) the other doesn't (primary).

Why isn't it always unauthorised absence? I don't understand how heads can routinely authorise this. Blimey.

In our school it is the governors as well as the head teacher who accept or refuse a holiday request.

We had a letter from our LEA stating that they have told all the heads in our LEA that the 10 days is purely discretionary and should only be given in exceptional circumstances.
All other request for normal holidays in term time will be declined and marked as unauthorised.

I suspect they might authorise it because too high a percentage of "unauthorised absences" would look bad on the Ofsted report.

We have a letter from our HT notifying us that our holiday would be authorised absence for the days requested.

Can you imagine what would happen if schools openly endorsed term time absence?

As holidays are incredibly cheap in term time, everyone who wanted an annual holiday would be swanning off...whenever!

Schools are relying on parents who respect the holiday rules. Imagine the disruption if these rules didn't exist.

This is an interesting thread.

What do people think about some holidays being of more educational (and other) benefit than being at school for the same period of time? (Devil's advocate here). I've seen one post about this already, but would be interested in hearing more views on this.

i am all for a holiday in term time critter.

And they do benefit from being educational too. Even if it is a beach holiday abroad, there is a different language, culture, climate etc. It is all learning, and some of it uyou just cannot experience in the same way as reading about in a book.

How about this for a laugh. My DD went on a school day trip. Permission given and trip paid for. 2 weeks after the trip i received a letter from the school asking about an unexplained absence from school for the same day! WTF

first week of the holidays

first week of August

It's perfectly possible to holiday in this country for £300 or less for a week in the school holidays.

I'd love to pay less for my holiday (who wouldn't?) but I refuse to holiday in termtime for all the reasons mentioned above. Tbh, I wish the schools would look at each case on its merits and then, if it was just a case of the parents thumbing their noses at the school and the rest of the parents & children ("look at how cheap it is! Aren't we clever! Listen to our lovely children crowing to all their friends!), I wish the school would take pretty drastic action.

As a general rule, our head will give permission for holidays in term-time, up to 10 days per year.

This is because
a) she recognises that there are all sorts of reasons why the family may not be able to take a holiday in school holiday time, including parent's contractual obligations. She accepts that people can't necessarily afford the hol they want in school holidays, and children spending holiday time with their parents is very valuable.
b) she asks parents to co-operate with school in all sorts of matters (behavioural issues, asking parents to help their children read, asking parents to help with swimming supervision, etc etc), and she is much more likely to get their co-operation if she shows a co-operative attitude to them.

I feel this whole business of "can't take children out during term-time" is draconian, nanny-state tactics.

I agree with clumsymum.