School and holidays during term time

[Undercarrigetrouble]

dd's school have refused us permission.
We are unable to go any other time as it is unaffordable to us also due to work commitments it is difficult to take leave during the school holidays.
dd has a great attendance record so i think they are being slightly unreasonable.
We are taking her regardless
So what will they do?

[DadAtLarge]

I like your childhood memories. You can give your children similar memories - you don't need to live near a beach to do that. I don't think that telling people to not take a holiday is harsh. Not in the least. If money permits, take one. If not, make your own fun. While I may be in a position to choose now, it was not always the case.

I apologise if that winds you up, it wasn't the intention. I've seen hard times, been homeless, lived without a shower for weeks at a time. Then I see people who are so dreadfully off that they can't afford to go away on holiday during the vacation and can afford it only in term time. It may be a big deal to some people but it's something I have difficulty understanding.

I hope it gets sorted out and you get what you're looking for.

mankyscotslass, you can hire a plane and take them for a ride for about £60 if they really, really want to see what it's like. Check Google for flight schools near you.

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

DadAtLarge, I'm sorry, I still insist that it's harsh to suggest that if people can't afford to go away on holiday during school holiday times then they shouldn't have a holiday at all.

I totally agree that it's possible to make your own fun if you can't afford to have a holiday under any circumstances, term-time or otherwise. Whilst I have never seen the hard times that you have, when DH and I were first together we couldn't afford holidays anywhere and so had a couple of days out locally over the summer instead. We had great fun doing that. If we couldn't afford a holiday with the kids now at any time in the year then I'm sure we would make our own fun. But the point is when a week away in a caravan somewhere DOES actually become affordable during term-time, could you really blame families for choosing that option? Can you not see the positives for a child of choosing that option?

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

Look, personally if it was a choice between taking my family abroad on holiday during term-time or having a week's caravan holiday in Wales during school holidays then I would choose the latter. Where it's a choice between one or the other "type" of holiday at different types of year, then I would opt for the school holidays one. If the choice were: have a holiday in term-time or DON'T have a holiday then I know which one I'd choose.

[MollieO]

I'm taking ds out of school for 3 days for holiday because I can't get the time off work to go away for that school holiday. Ds will be taking classes and learning a sport that he enjoys and can do (has mobility problems so lots of sports not available to him). I did it by accident last year (school changed term dates) but will do it by design this year and hope it will be approved. Last year's holiday was hugely beneficial for ds's self esteem and confidence.

[BetsyBoop]

you can get basic camping gear for just over £100 from halfords

4 berth tent, 4 sleeping bags, 2 dbl air beds & 2 lights for £99.87, add on a portable gas stove for £16.99 & you're sorted.

Perfectly possible to do it in a small car, when I was young we had a canvas frame tent (they take up far more room than modern tents) and we we used to have 4 of us in a Morris Minor. Quite how my Dad used to fit so much into the boot I don't know, it was like a tardis!

We used to go camping when I was a kid as it was the only way we could get away in school holidays. TBH they are some of my fondest memories, kids always see camping as an "adventure" & don't mind roughing it a bit.

Once our kids are at school we will probably end up camping too (much easier when you don't need nappies, travel cots etc...) as the prices during school holidays for what we do now (normally a self catering cottage in the UK) are ridiculous, but I'd rather that than the kids miss school.

[ChasingSquirrels]

I have taken my ds1 out of school for the week before May half-term for the last two years (Rec & Yr1).
I could afford to go in the half-term break if I wanted.
I chose to go the week before because;
a) it is cheaper
b) it is alot quieter, the thought of being in cornwall in may half term week is not at all appealing.

I wouldn't however take him out in the Sep half-term.

[juuule]

Also, why would I pay double for the same holiday? If I had the money I would prefer to pay the half price and use the other money to pay for other things for the children.

[EachPeachPearMum]

All you people bleating 'well, it's only a week, they won't miss anything, it's not important' would have a different attitude if it were the class teacher going on holiday because its cheaper, quieter, educational for their children etc.

I agree with Quattro- it gives the wrong message to children- that they are special and don't need to abide by the rules.

Well they aren't- we have societal norms for a reason. If children don't learn to conform to these they will struggle their whole life.

I am of the opinion that if you cannot afford something, you don't have it, regardless what it is. Holidays are not a necessity, they are a luxury. (Time off is a necessity of course, but you do not need to go away if you beggar yourselves to do so).

[juuule]

As CurlyHairedAssassin says
"presumably if you've chosen to work in a school then you've considered the whole holiday dilemma and accepted that it's just part of the terms and conditions of the job."

And, in fact, at our primary there have been teachers who have taken holidays in term time in certain circumstances e.g. when one teacher got married.

[juuule]

For those who think that a holiday away is pointlessthis makes interesting reading.

I particularly agree with
? ?Recharging batteries? ? holidays allowed families to take themselves away from their daily problems and relax. Some respondents had mental or physical health problems, others had suffered bereavements, and some lived in problem areas and had disputes with their neighbours. The holiday gave them the space and time to think, and relief from routine, chores and stress.

[DadAtLarge]

Why do people go on holiday?
"A holiday would be healthy"
"I would like a holiday"
"I want a holiday"
"I need a holiday"
"I deserve a holiday"
But the only ever valid grounds to take a holiday (in my book):
"I can afford a holiday"

If I were in a position where I could afford a holiday in term time but not in the holidays... I wouldn't take any holiday at all and would focus on improving my financial position. Especially, as others have pointed out, we can have lots of fun within an hour or two's driving distance.

This may upset some so let me emphasise I'm not advising this, I'm simply stating what I would do.

Taking a holiday when finances are tight sends a message to children not just about rules. It connects spending with desires rather than affordability.

[DadAtLarge]

"assuming you have a car"
What does a car have to do with it?

"If you can afford it in term-time then you can afford it. "
Mesasge: We can't afford to go during holidays so - because we want/deserve/ to go - let's do it in term. The over-riding priority is our personal desires.

[ChasingSquirrels]

life isn't JUST about rules though - is it?

[juuule]

Dadatlarge
You said "within an hour or two's driving distance" Doesn't 'driving distance' imply a car? Or at least some sort of motorised vehicle? If you meant public transport then the cost of getting anywhere an hour or two away can be ridiclous.

"Mesasge: We can't afford to go during holidays so - because we want/deserve/ to go - let's do it in term."

Not always. Imo Message: We can't afford to go during holidays so - because we need time together as a family away from everyday stresses - let's do it in term.

[juuule]

"within an hour or two's driving distance"

assuming you have a car.

"It connects spending with desires rather than affordability."

How? If you can afford it in term-time then you can afford it.

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

No, life isn't JUST about rules though, I quite agree ChasingSquirrels. Imagine a world where everyone went about being nice little obedient robots sticking strictly to the rules of EVERYTHING. Life would just be no fun at all I imagine.

If I were a teacher in a really difficult primary school, and the only way that some of the children could go away on holiday away from the stresses, strains and grime of crime-ridden inner city estates would be to go in term-time, then I would consider myself to be lacking a little humanity and heart if I didn't accept that a little bending of the rules would be worth it to bring a little bit of happiness to those children whose day-to-day lives were actually a bit of a grim struggle compared to the lucky rest of us.

Bit of a long sentence, sorry!

In fact, if my own children's primary school were that strict about rules like that then I would consider sending them to a different one, where consideration and empathy towards individuals was in evidence.

DadAtLarge: "If I were in a position where I could afford a holiday in term time but not in the holidays... I wouldn't take any holiday at all and would focus on improving my financial position." There are single parent families out there who, despite working full-time, are in the best financial position they're ever likely to be in, and if the only way they could afford a holiday would be to go in term-time, would you REALLY begrudge them that? Your attitude just seems, well, a bit heartless towards those less fortunate than yourself.

[karise]

I maybe missing the point here, but if schools can take children out for day trips for an enriching experience why can't parents?
I am not suggesting for a moment that we all take as much time as we like, but I know kids at DD's school who have to take long weekends & days off of school just to go and see Dad!
In our case, a week with Grandparents who DD would otherwise only get to spend a couple of hours with 3 or 4 times per week is worth a month of school! And if that can only happen in term time because they are busy in the holidays then so be it- there is much more to a childs education than just reading and writing!
Oh and then there is instrumental lessons, music exams, county run weeks away with the orchestra/football team/a week away with the yeargroup- if heads said no to all of these things our education system would be a very boring place...

[karise]

Oops, I meant per year! She see's her grandparents 3-4 times per year not week

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Theres a huge difference between a school organised day trip and a term time holiday. The school trip will include teachers and an educational aspect to the day - usually ties in with a subject being studied. A holiday with parents is rarely educational - despite the spin some parents put on it.

As for grandparents being busy in the holidays so only available to see the grandchildren in term time - if MIL ever stated that then there is no way I would take DS out of school. If she cant fit in time to see him in the 13 weeks that schools are closed then she would need to rethink her priorities and not expect DS's education to suffer.

I dont think a holiday is a given right, its a luxury and not a necessity. There are plenty of ways to spend family time together without taking unauthorised absence or going away.

[karise]

So you would prefer your child never to see their grandparents would you? Not all relatives will listen to reason you know!
And yes, we do choose holidays very carefully to make sure they are educational- better than DD being bored stiff with 90% of the very easy curriculum at school!
And our council do offer specialist trips with local authority providers that are a week long in termtime- should these be banned too then?

[karise]

With my calm hat on though, all trips with parents or otherwise do need to be very carefully weighed up with the head. If the head agrees that the trip will benefit your child then what is the harm? This is why discussion in person with the head is so necessary!

[Quattrocento]

Yes, I'm a bit uncomfortable about this idea of entitlement to a holiday. No-one has an entitlement to a holiday, surely? I don't feel that my DCs are entitled to holidays...

[Podrick]

I think a maximum of 2 weeks a year within term time is reasonable except where this would interfere with exams and exam preparation.

Holidays can benefit the child and family in many ways and this can impact positively on the child's overall educational experience. I realise this creates more work for teachers butI think it should be accommodated. And up until now, it usually was.

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

Re: entitlement. You could apply that to anything. No-one has an entitlement to access to a visit to a park, no-one has an entitlement to get any toys at Christmas, no-one has an entitlement to ever see the sea.

But those are life-enriching things that put smiles on a child's face. They make life more FUN, goddammit! We could all go about po-faced and puritanical about these things but life would be very, very boring.

[ihatethecold]

well im taking mine out for 9 days to go to rome and florence and i really am past caring what anyone thinks, i cant afford it in school holiday time and i want to go when its not too hot or crowded. make of that what you will...